6 ms·

Emmanuel Macron on the Arrest of Pavel Durov

38 points by bpierre 2y ago

uxhacker 2y ago
Macron may insist that the arrest of the Is Pavel Durov isn’t political, but it certainly looks that way. The silence from the judicial system, particularly the lack of a statement from the public prosecutor, only fuels this perception. Without clear communication, the void is filled with suspicion, making it hard to argue that politics isn’t at play.
- kranke155 2y ago
  Huh, sure do we even know how long cases like this take in the French system, or are you just happy to jump to conclusions ?
- Reventlov 2y ago
  This is France, stop expecting the legal system to work like in the US. Dude was arrested on a /sunday/, and we have a thing called violation of the secrecy of the investigation (yeah, often, it's not respected, but still). He is presumed innocent, and if there is a trial, it will be public.
  - orwin 2y ago
    Secrecy of the investigation is sadly less and less respected as regular papers turns into Anglo tabloids and social media professionals whiners think everyone owe them information.
- Fordec 2y ago
  How often do judicial prosecutions air a given case out in the public space? Especially pre-trial. Isn't that ripe for potential to ruin the case generally speaking?
  - kranke155 2y ago
    Honestly at this point I am assuming there are bot farms (Russian origin?) spreading misinformation about this arrest. The amount of delusional dissent is too high. And Snowden, IMO at this point an FSB asset, has immediately come out to condemn the arrest.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  > the lack of a statement from the public prosecutor Are you operating on the misguided assumption that every country in the world works like the USA? There is no equivalent to a public prosecutor in the US here. Durov has been arrested so a magistrate had to fill a mandat d’arrêt but it could be a prosecutor who is directly under hierarchical control of the executive branch or a juge d’instruction if it’s linked to an existing investigation. Neither would speak to the media at this point.
  - uxhacker 2y ago
    As Blaise Pascal said, ‘Le silence est le plus grand persécuteur de la vérité’ (Silence is the greatest persecutor of truth). The lack of communication from judicial authorities, whether a magistrate, prosecutor, or juge d’instruction, only invites speculation. Transparency is key to preventing rumors from shaping the narrative
    - dralley 2y ago
      It's been less than 24 hours, over a weekend.
      - cvwright 2y ago
        And yet they had no problem springing into action to have him arrested on a weekend. Funny how that works.
        dralley 2y ago
        Police working 24/7 while the judicial system works on more typical hours is not news to anyone.
        kranke155 2y ago
        You seem delusional if you're surprised police work 7 days a week to arrest a high value target, while courts don't.
    - 2y ago
lm28469 2y ago
For people without an account: https://xcancel.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1828077245606342672 https://xcancel.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/182807724560634267...
robswc 2y ago
How to say nothing in so many sentences. What is the "false information" he is seeing? I genuinely have no idea what he is referring to.
- kranke155 2y ago
  Theres plenty on X saying France is doing this for a million reasons, all speculation ofc.
- christophilus 2y ago
  It seems to me that when a politician trots out the the phrases "misinformation" and "false information", it's similar to when a debater accuses his opponent of being a "nazi". When someone does that, they're usually admitting that they don't have a good argument, so they're resorting to an ad-hominem. It's not a good look, here.
  - sofixa 2y ago
    How anyone can be blind to the presence and downright prevalence of misinformation online is beyond me.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    Have you seen the new word "malinformation" yet? That basically means true information that damages the current regime's reputation. Government agencies have been set up in the US with the express goal of shutting down mis- dis- and malinformation lol.
  - dralley 2y ago
    Russians are absolutely losing their shit about this, because Telegram is the unofficial-but-predominant communication system of the entire Russian military. So yes, a lot of noise is being spewed to try to turn everyone against this before any details are actually public.
  - pjerem 2y ago
    I really don’t like Macron like, at all. But in France there is separation of powers. No politician, including the president, have the power to make arrest people. Also, in France, when you are arrested, you can be kept in "garde à vue" for as much as 48 hours (sometimes more but it’s rare exceptions) and during this period, there is no communication whatsoever. It’s then up to the prosecutors to either decide to give up or to go to trial. If there is a trial, it will be a public trial. Like, any French citizen can just get in and out the tribunal during the trial whenever he wants. So even if it was a political arrest (which it isn’t because it would be useless), Pavel Durov couldn’t be retained more than some days.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hganby 2y ago
I am sure that such a bland and bureaucratic statement on a closed platform that is itself targeted by the EU will restore the confidence of the people who have strayed from the approved narratives.
- dralley 2y ago
  Every single thread that's tangentially related to Russia has several new accounts, created minutes ago, posting for the first time using narratives that incidentally always line up with Russian interests, for some reason. I almost never see fresh new accounts in other threads by comparison. It's very consistent.
dgellow 2y ago
From the previous thread: > French lawyer here, it's difficult to know anything as of now given that's all the information is covered by secrecy as long as he's in preliminary custody. > Neither him nor his lawyers have access to the procedure yet. > This will last for 48 hours from his arrest - it can be 96 hours if they decide his suspected crimes are about drugs or prostitution, and even 144 hours if it's about terrorism. > So we'll probably need to wait for a few days before understanding what this is really about. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41349046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41349046 Just wait and see, no need to rush for speculation
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
627467 2y ago
How many CEOs did France judicial arrest for OVH fires? On the other hand: lots of criticisms thrown around highlighting France and French judicial system. Are we forgetting Assange (Sweden, UK, Aus, US), Snowden (US + everybody who didn't shelter him on his way to Ru), Huawei CFO (Canada, US)... Obviously unless french justice can prove Pavel is the Al Capone of the nefarious gang syndicates operating on telegram, this is obviously political/idiological. Fair game, any sovereign state can arbitrarily display their powers however they want. Just don't pretend high ground next time
- sofixa 2y ago
  > How many CEOs did France judicial arrest for OVH fires? OVH were sued and found liable for damages due to their backups being by default on the same site. But they weren't criminally liable, unless you know something the French magistrates don't?
kranke155 2y ago
Here it is. The charges for everyone to see: https://x.com/fs0c131y/status/1828103712964817389 https://x.com/fs0c131y/status/1828103712964817389 Finally the charges against Pavel Durov has been published: - Complicity - Administration of an online platform to allow an illegal transaction in an organised band, - Refusal to communicate, at the request of the authorised authorities, the information or documents necessary for the realisation and exploitation of interceptions authorised by law, - Complicity - Detention of the image of a minor of a child-pornographic nature, - Complicity - Dissemination, offer or making available in an organised tape of images of a minor of a pornographic nature, - Complicity - Acquisition, transport, holding, offer or disposal of narcotic products, - Complicity - Offer, assignment or making available without legitimate reason of equipment, an instrument, a program or data designed or adapted for the attack and access to the operation of an automated data processing system, - Complicity - Organised gang scam, - Association of criminals with a view to committing a crime or offence punishable by 5 years of imprisonment at least, - Money laundering of crimes or offences in organised gangs, - Provision of cryptology services to ensure confidentiality functions without a declaration of conformity, - Provision of a cryptological means not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration, - Import of a cryptology means that does not exclusively perform authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration.

38 points by bpierre 2y ago

Macron may insist that the arrest of the Is Pavel Durov isn’t political, but it certainly looks that way. The silence from the judicial system, particularly the lack of a statement from the public prosecutor, only fuels this perception. Without clear communication, the void is filled with suspicion, making it hard to argue that politics isn’t at play.

kranke155 2y ago
Huh, sure do we even know how long cases like this take in the French system, or are you just happy to jump to conclusions ?
Reventlov 2y ago
This is France, stop expecting the legal system to work like in the US. Dude was arrested on a /sunday/, and we have a thing called violation of the secrecy of the investigation (yeah, often, it's not respected, but still). He is presumed innocent, and if there is a trial, it will be public.
- orwin 2y ago
  Secrecy of the investigation is sadly less and less respected as regular papers turns into Anglo tabloids and social media professionals whiners think everyone owe them information.
Fordec 2y ago
How often do judicial prosecutions air a given case out in the public space? Especially pre-trial. Isn't that ripe for potential to ruin the case generally speaking?
- kranke155 2y ago
  Honestly at this point I am assuming there are bot farms (Russian origin?) spreading misinformation about this arrest. The amount of delusional dissent is too high. And Snowden, IMO at this point an FSB asset, has immediately come out to condemn the arrest.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
RandomThoughts3 2y ago
> the lack of a statement from the public prosecutor Are you operating on the misguided assumption that every country in the world works like the USA? There is no equivalent to a public prosecutor in the US here. Durov has been arrested so a magistrate had to fill a mandat d’arrêt but it could be a prosecutor who is directly under hierarchical control of the executive branch or a juge d’instruction if it’s linked to an existing investigation. Neither would speak to the media at this point.
- uxhacker 2y ago
  As Blaise Pascal said, ‘Le silence est le plus grand persécuteur de la vérité’ (Silence is the greatest persecutor of truth). The lack of communication from judicial authorities, whether a magistrate, prosecutor, or juge d’instruction, only invites speculation. Transparency is key to preventing rumors from shaping the narrative
  - dralley 2y ago
    It's been less than 24 hours, over a weekend.
    - cvwright 2y ago
      And yet they had no problem springing into action to have him arrested on a weekend. Funny how that works.
      - dralley 2y ago
        Police working 24/7 while the judicial system works on more typical hours is not news to anyone.
      - kranke155 2y ago
        You seem delusional if you're surprised police work 7 days a week to arrest a high value target, while courts don't.
  - 2y ago

lm28469 2y ago

For people without an account: https://xcancel.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1828077245606342672 https://xcancel.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/182807724560634267...

robswc 2y ago

How to say nothing in so many sentences. What is the "false information" he is seeing? I genuinely have no idea what he is referring to.

kranke155 2y ago
Theres plenty on X saying France is doing this for a million reasons, all speculation ofc.
christophilus 2y ago
It seems to me that when a politician trots out the the phrases "misinformation" and "false information", it's similar to when a debater accuses his opponent of being a "nazi". When someone does that, they're usually admitting that they don't have a good argument, so they're resorting to an ad-hominem. It's not a good look, here.
- sofixa 2y ago
  How anyone can be blind to the presence and downright prevalence of misinformation online is beyond me.
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Have you seen the new word "malinformation" yet? That basically means true information that damages the current regime's reputation. Government agencies have been set up in the US with the express goal of shutting down mis- dis- and malinformation lol.
- dralley 2y ago
  Russians are absolutely losing their shit about this, because Telegram is the unofficial-but-predominant communication system of the entire Russian military. So yes, a lot of noise is being spewed to try to turn everyone against this before any details are actually public.
- pjerem 2y ago
  I really don’t like Macron like, at all. But in France there is separation of powers. No politician, including the president, have the power to make arrest people. Also, in France, when you are arrested, you can be kept in "garde à vue" for as much as 48 hours (sometimes more but it’s rare exceptions) and during this period, there is no communication whatsoever. It’s then up to the prosecutors to either decide to give up or to go to trial. If there is a trial, it will be a public trial. Like, any French citizen can just get in and out the tribunal during the trial whenever he wants. So even if it was a political arrest (which it isn’t because it would be useless), Pavel Durov couldn’t be retained more than some days.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

hganby 2y ago

I am sure that such a bland and bureaucratic statement on a closed platform that is itself targeted by the EU will restore the confidence of the people who have strayed from the approved narratives.

dralley 2y ago
Every single thread that's tangentially related to Russia has several new accounts, created minutes ago, posting for the first time using narratives that incidentally always line up with Russian interests, for some reason. I almost never see fresh new accounts in other threads by comparison. It's very consistent.

dgellow 2y ago

From the previous thread: > French lawyer here, it's difficult to know anything as of now given that's all the information is covered by secrecy as long as he's in preliminary custody. > Neither him nor his lawyers have access to the procedure yet. > This will last for 48 hours from his arrest - it can be 96 hours if they decide his suspected crimes are about drugs or prostitution, and even 144 hours if it's about terrorism. > So we'll probably need to wait for a few days before understanding what this is really about. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41349046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41349046 Just wait and see, no need to rush for speculation

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

627467 2y ago

How many CEOs did France judicial arrest for OVH fires? On the other hand: lots of criticisms thrown around highlighting France and French judicial system. Are we forgetting Assange (Sweden, UK, Aus, US), Snowden (US + everybody who didn't shelter him on his way to Ru), Huawei CFO (Canada, US)... Obviously unless french justice can prove Pavel is the Al Capone of the nefarious gang syndicates operating on telegram, this is obviously political/idiological. Fair game, any sovereign state can arbitrarily display their powers however they want. Just don't pretend high ground next time

sofixa 2y ago
> How many CEOs did France judicial arrest for OVH fires? OVH were sued and found liable for damages due to their backups being by default on the same site. But they weren't criminally liable, unless you know something the French magistrates don't?

kranke155 2y ago

Here it is. The charges for everyone to see: https://x.com/fs0c131y/status/1828103712964817389 https://x.com/fs0c131y/status/1828103712964817389 Finally the charges against Pavel Durov has been published: - Complicity - Administration of an online platform to allow an illegal transaction in an organised band, - Refusal to communicate, at the request of the authorised authorities, the information or documents necessary for the realisation and exploitation of interceptions authorised by law, - Complicity - Detention of the image of a minor of a child-pornographic nature, - Complicity - Dissemination, offer or making available in an organised tape of images of a minor of a pornographic nature, - Complicity - Acquisition, transport, holding, offer or disposal of narcotic products, - Complicity - Offer, assignment or making available without legitimate reason of equipment, an instrument, a program or data designed or adapted for the attack and access to the operation of an automated data processing system, - Complicity - Organised gang scam, - Association of criminals with a view to committing a crime or offence punishable by 5 years of imprisonment at least, - Money laundering of crimes or offences in organised gangs, - Provision of cryptology services to ensure confidentiality functions without a declaration of conformity, - Provision of a cryptological means not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration, - Import of a cryptology means that does not exclusively perform authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration.