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this take is naive. building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. a diverse, competitive tech ecosystem with both EU and non-EU players

by kmlx 2y ago

this take is naive. building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. a diverse, competitive tech ecosystem with both EU and non-EU players is better than a protectionist approach. hoping for an exodus of major global players when you’re leapfrogged by both China and the US…

Rinzler89 2y ago
>building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is kind of a FUD fueled false dichotomy, when the truth is we can't know if the EU doesn't have time or resources if it never tries. What the US has that EU doesn't is the infinte money to throw in the bonfire at moonshot projects knowing that 99% will fail and the 1% will be hugely successful, but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities, and the EU doesn't have to spend like the US did to achieve the same results, since we now know what works and what doesn't and how to make an Uber that's compliant with local regulations while using less money.
- kmlx 2y ago
  > but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities at a macro level i don’t think things stand still waiting for the europeans to catch up. i think things are moving extremely fast and you either adapt or “stagnate”.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    What's "moving" right now besides overhyped and unprofitable generative AI and AI chat bots, most of which are trained on copyrighted content and can be regulated away with a piece of paper when copyright holders lobby enough?
gapplevert1984 2y ago
> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is a smartphone app that buys a local service that already exists, it's not hard... In fact alternatives already exist.. I mean of course they do cmon. On the flip side do you realise the lithographic tech used to build your Intel fabs come from EU? (ASML) building an alternative to that will take serious time and resources. EU is not some third world country.
StrLght 2y ago
What makes you think there are no alternatives to Uber in EU right now? Actually, it's the opposite: * ride hailing alternatives: FreeNow, Bolt * food delivery: Wolt (technically owned by DoorDash, but still), Just Eat, Bolt Food * bikes / scooters: Tier, Bolt, NextBike, Voi, and many others If Uber leaves, there won't be any void to fill.
- kmlx 2y ago
  agree. but competition will always trump protectionism in the long term.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  [flagged]
kergonath 2y ago
> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. The EU does not have the motivation, mostly. They are not rivals of the US in the way China is. So money goes elsewhere. Europe is still a continent with a whole bunch of people and quite a lot of money. The path of least resistance is to just use American solutions in some areas and to develop others locally. This might change and if there is a vacuum, it will be filled quickly.
- philipwhiuk 2y ago
  Except there already alternatives to Uber
  - kergonath 2y ago
    Uber is a poor example of dominant American companies. They don’t really have a moat and they don’t really provide a better service than the alternatives in Europe. I don’t think people would miss them much if they left.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      The famous companies with a moat are Apple, Google, Microsoft and Amazon(AWS) since they're vertically integrated so no start-up stands a chance of competing or like Reddit and you hold a large userbase knowledge repository. Food delivery companies, ride sharing companies, flight & boarding booking companies are all expendable. If one goes down, another one will spring up tomorrow.
      - kergonath 2y ago
        Yes, and I don’t see them moving away any time soon. It’s too much on their balance sheets (Europe is a bigger market than China for Apple, and the other two are deeply embedded with the local administrations and companies). All of them are following the legislative frameworks and adapting.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
devuo 2y ago
> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. Oh no. What would we poor Europeans do without a US company to lead us. /s Of course local and regional players would appear, as they always have and are already in place in multiple segments. Bolt, Glovo, Delivery Hero and many others are successful competitors to different Uber offerings in the different European markets they operate. The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse.
- pb7 2y ago
  >The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse. It’s both. Copying a validated business model is not a sign of competency.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    You don't need to be competent, you need to make money. Japan, China et al also got wealthy by copying.
    - kmlx 2y ago
      that’s not how it works. you can’t build long term wealth just by copying. this is why both china and japan had to innovate.

by kmlx 2y ago

Rinzler89 2y ago

>building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is kind of a FUD fueled false dichotomy, when the truth is we can't know if the EU doesn't have time or resources if it never tries. What the US has that EU doesn't is the infinte money to throw in the bonfire at moonshot projects knowing that 99% will fail and the 1% will be hugely successful, but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities, and the EU doesn't have to spend like the US did to achieve the same results, since we now know what works and what doesn't and how to make an Uber that's compliant with local regulations while using less money.

kmlx 2y ago
> but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities at a macro level i don’t think things stand still waiting for the europeans to catch up. i think things are moving extremely fast and you either adapt or “stagnate”.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  What's "moving" right now besides overhyped and unprofitable generative AI and AI chat bots, most of which are trained on copyrighted content and can be regulated away with a piece of paper when copyright holders lobby enough?

gapplevert1984 2y ago

> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is a smartphone app that buys a local service that already exists, it's not hard... In fact alternatives already exist.. I mean of course they do cmon. On the flip side do you realise the lithographic tech used to build your Intel fabs come from EU? (ASML) building an alternative to that will take serious time and resources. EU is not some third world country.

StrLght 2y ago

What makes you think there are no alternatives to Uber in EU right now? Actually, it's the opposite: * ride hailing alternatives: FreeNow, Bolt * food delivery: Wolt (technically owned by DoorDash, but still), Just Eat, Bolt Food * bikes / scooters: Tier, Bolt, NextBike, Voi, and many others If Uber leaves, there won't be any void to fill.

kmlx 2y ago
agree. but competition will always trump protectionism in the long term.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
[flagged]

kergonath 2y ago

> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. The EU does not have the motivation, mostly. They are not rivals of the US in the way China is. So money goes elsewhere. Europe is still a continent with a whole bunch of people and quite a lot of money. The path of least resistance is to just use American solutions in some areas and to develop others locally. This might change and if there is a vacuum, it will be filled quickly.

philipwhiuk 2y ago
Except there already alternatives to Uber
- kergonath 2y ago
  Uber is a poor example of dominant American companies. They don’t really have a moat and they don’t really provide a better service than the alternatives in Europe. I don’t think people would miss them much if they left.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    The famous companies with a moat are Apple, Google, Microsoft and Amazon(AWS) since they're vertically integrated so no start-up stands a chance of competing or like Reddit and you hold a large userbase knowledge repository. Food delivery companies, ride sharing companies, flight & boarding booking companies are all expendable. If one goes down, another one will spring up tomorrow.
    - kergonath 2y ago
      Yes, and I don’t see them moving away any time soon. It’s too much on their balance sheets (Europe is a bigger market than China for Apple, and the other two are deeply embedded with the local administrations and companies). All of them are following the legislative frameworks and adapting.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

devuo 2y ago

> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. Oh no. What would we poor Europeans do without a US company to lead us. /s Of course local and regional players would appear, as they always have and are already in place in multiple segments. Bolt, Glovo, Delivery Hero and many others are successful competitors to different Uber offerings in the different European markets they operate. The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse.

pb7 2y ago
>The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse. It’s both. Copying a validated business model is not a sign of competency.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  You don't need to be competent, you need to make money. Japan, China et al also got wealthy by copying.
  - kmlx 2y ago
    that’s not how it works. you can’t build long term wealth just by copying. this is why both china and japan had to innovate.