6 ms·

Which big tech company will be the first to stop doing business in Europe? It's going to happen sooner or later.

nehal3m 2y ago
My first instinct would say if someone pulls out I hope that would finally spur some competition. You don't need to apply anti-trust to companies that don't operate in your market. Maybe a competing video platform or phone operating system would get a chance at organic growth. Maybe a pipe dream though. I haven't given it serious thought.
Rinzler89 2y ago
The sooner the better. This way local EU players can fill the void they'll leave. This insular isolation also fueled China's domestic SW sector.
- kmlx 2y ago
  this take is naive. building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. a diverse, competitive tech ecosystem with both EU and non-EU players is better than a protectionist approach. hoping for an exodus of major global players when you’re leapfrogged by both China and the US…
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is kind of a FUD fueled false dichotomy, when the truth is we can't know if the EU doesn't have time or resources if it never tries. What the US has that EU doesn't is the infinte money to throw in the bonfire at moonshot projects knowing that 99% will fail and the 1% will be hugely successful, but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities, and the EU doesn't have to spend like the US did to achieve the same results, since we now know what works and what doesn't and how to make an Uber that's compliant with local regulations while using less money.
    - kmlx 2y ago
      > but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities at a macro level i don’t think things stand still waiting for the europeans to catch up. i think things are moving extremely fast and you either adapt or “stagnate”.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        What's "moving" right now besides overhyped and unprofitable generative AI and AI chat bots, most of which are trained on copyrighted content and can be regulated away with a piece of paper when copyright holders lobby enough?
  - gapplevert1984 2y ago
    > building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is a smartphone app that buys a local service that already exists, it's not hard... In fact alternatives already exist.. I mean of course they do cmon. On the flip side do you realise the lithographic tech used to build your Intel fabs come from EU? (ASML) building an alternative to that will take serious time and resources. EU is not some third world country.
  - StrLght 2y ago
    What makes you think there are no alternatives to Uber in EU right now? Actually, it's the opposite: * ride hailing alternatives: FreeNow, Bolt * food delivery: Wolt (technically owned by DoorDash, but still), Just Eat, Bolt Food * bikes / scooters: Tier, Bolt, NextBike, Voi, and many others If Uber leaves, there won't be any void to fill.
    - kmlx 2y ago
      agree. but competition will always trump protectionism in the long term.
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - kergonath 2y ago
    > building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. The EU does not have the motivation, mostly. They are not rivals of the US in the way China is. So money goes elsewhere. Europe is still a continent with a whole bunch of people and quite a lot of money. The path of least resistance is to just use American solutions in some areas and to develop others locally. This might change and if there is a vacuum, it will be filled quickly.
    - philipwhiuk 2y ago
      Except there already alternatives to Uber
      - kergonath 2y ago
        Uber is a poor example of dominant American companies. They don’t really have a moat and they don’t really provide a better service than the alternatives in Europe. I don’t think people would miss them much if they left.
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        The famous companies with a moat are Apple, Google, Microsoft and Amazon(AWS) since they're vertically integrated so no start-up stands a chance of competing or like Reddit and you hold a large userbase knowledge repository. Food delivery companies, ride sharing companies, flight & boarding booking companies are all expendable. If one goes down, another one will spring up tomorrow.
        kergonath 2y ago
        Yes, and I don’t see them moving away any time soon. It’s too much on their balance sheets (Europe is a bigger market than China for Apple, and the other two are deeply embedded with the local administrations and companies). All of them are following the legislative frameworks and adapting.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - devuo 2y ago
    > building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. Oh no. What would we poor Europeans do without a US company to lead us. /s Of course local and regional players would appear, as they always have and are already in place in multiple segments. Bolt, Glovo, Delivery Hero and many others are successful competitors to different Uber offerings in the different European markets they operate. The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse.
    - pb7 2y ago
      >The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse. It’s both. Copying a validated business model is not a sign of competency.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        You don't need to be competent, you need to make money. Japan, China et al also got wealthy by copying.
        kmlx 2y ago
        that’s not how it works. you can’t build long term wealth just by copying. this is why both china and japan had to innovate.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
returningfory2 2y ago
I'm not sure if it will actually happen. But the theoretical "problem" with these "X% of worldwide revenue" fines is that they change the calculus of launching an existing product in Europe. It makes it so that if a company enters the EU they risk it being a net negative to revenue.
- vanviegen 2y ago
  Isn't that exactly the intended effect? Otherwise, why wouldn't BigCorp just ignore any inconvenient laws?
  - returningfory2 2y ago
    I don't understand, are you saying the intended effect of these laws is that non-EU countries don't enter the EU market?
    - vanviegen 2y ago
      Not necessarily, but it should "change the calculus of launching an existing product in Europe", factoring in privacy laws. Either don't launch, or make sure that your product complies.
      - andersa 2y ago
        It isn't possible for an American company to actually comply.
        max51 2y ago
        That's not a EU problem. If the US puts laws in place that prevents their company from expending overseas, that's a problem that Americans need to fix.
        andersa 2y ago
        There is nothing the companies can do about it.
eclecticfrank 2y ago
Not many will shed a tear for Uber. Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived. And no, they won't leave. They will comply in order to have access to the European market.
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  > Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived. All the "Uber" rip-offs in Norway are worse than Uber was last time I used it. Not that anyone can afford to use a taxi here anyway unless the government covers the bill, which they do and which is the only thing that keeps taxis employed, I think.
- alex_suzuki 2y ago
  At least here in non-EU Switzerland, Uber often provides superior service over regular taxis. They‘re cheaper and you can’t get ripped off by a driver choosing a more circuitous route.
Sharlin 2y ago
I doubt it. Besides Apple, none has even complained very loudly, and even Apple just did it in order to garner some sympathy points from the fans. That is, for marketing reasons. The fact is that none of this legislative stuff, this basic level of consumer protection in the EU is in any way a dealbreaker or a significant hindrance to big tech, merely a cost of doing business.
pyrale 2y ago
[flagged]
ricardo81 2y ago
Too big a market. That's the power of the EU I guess. If they can adapt to abide, they will. If they can't, quite likely due to GDPR for many US companies.
gostsamo 2y ago
twitter, hopefully. This is an aspect of Musk that I can live without.
akudha 2y ago
Why do you think they will leave? They will make noise, complain but if the choice is between following rules or give up profits, they will fall in line. Money trumps everything else. They will however keep lobbying, support candidates favorable to them etc. EU (and other governments) should be vigilant all the time. The moment they take it easy a bit, big tech will be back to their usual shenanigans
- bitmasher9 2y ago
  The EU fines based on global revenue. If the EU is a small part of a companies’ profit then they may decide to stay away for liability reasons.
phatfish 2y ago
Hopefully it is one of the social media parasites. But the "gig economy" is a close second.
kklisura 2y ago
Why can't big tech companies just adhere to the rule of the law?

My first instinct would say if someone pulls out I hope that would finally spur some competition. You don't need to apply anti-trust to companies that don't operate in your market. Maybe a competing video platform or phone operating system would get a chance at organic growth. Maybe a pipe dream though. I haven't given it serious thought.

Rinzler89 2y ago

The sooner the better. This way local EU players can fill the void they'll leave. This insular isolation also fueled China's domestic SW sector.

kmlx 2y ago
this take is naive. building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. a diverse, competitive tech ecosystem with both EU and non-EU players is better than a protectionist approach. hoping for an exodus of major global players when you’re leapfrogged by both China and the US…
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is kind of a FUD fueled false dichotomy, when the truth is we can't know if the EU doesn't have time or resources if it never tries. What the US has that EU doesn't is the infinte money to throw in the bonfire at moonshot projects knowing that 99% will fail and the 1% will be hugely successful, but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities, and the EU doesn't have to spend like the US did to achieve the same results, since we now know what works and what doesn't and how to make an Uber that's compliant with local regulations while using less money.
  - kmlx 2y ago
    > but now the market is mature with less untapped opportunities at a macro level i don’t think things stand still waiting for the europeans to catch up. i think things are moving extremely fast and you either adapt or “stagnate”.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      What's "moving" right now besides overhyped and unprofitable generative AI and AI chat bots, most of which are trained on copyrighted content and can be regulated away with a piece of paper when copyright holders lobby enough?
- gapplevert1984 2y ago
  > building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. This is a smartphone app that buys a local service that already exists, it's not hard... In fact alternatives already exist.. I mean of course they do cmon. On the flip side do you realise the lithographic tech used to build your Intel fabs come from EU? (ASML) building an alternative to that will take serious time and resources. EU is not some third world country.
- StrLght 2y ago
  What makes you think there are no alternatives to Uber in EU right now? Actually, it's the opposite: * ride hailing alternatives: FreeNow, Bolt * food delivery: Wolt (technically owned by DoorDash, but still), Just Eat, Bolt Food * bikes / scooters: Tier, Bolt, NextBike, Voi, and many others If Uber leaves, there won't be any void to fill.
  - kmlx 2y ago
    agree. but competition will always trump protectionism in the long term.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    [flagged]
- kergonath 2y ago
  > building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. The EU does not have the motivation, mostly. They are not rivals of the US in the way China is. So money goes elsewhere. Europe is still a continent with a whole bunch of people and quite a lot of money. The path of least resistance is to just use American solutions in some areas and to develop others locally. This might change and if there is a vacuum, it will be filled quickly.
  - philipwhiuk 2y ago
    Except there already alternatives to Uber
    - kergonath 2y ago
      Uber is a poor example of dominant American companies. They don’t really have a moat and they don’t really provide a better service than the alternatives in Europe. I don’t think people would miss them much if they left.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        The famous companies with a moat are Apple, Google, Microsoft and Amazon(AWS) since they're vertically integrated so no start-up stands a chance of competing or like Reddit and you hold a large userbase knowledge repository. Food delivery companies, ride sharing companies, flight & boarding booking companies are all expendable. If one goes down, another one will spring up tomorrow.
        kergonath 2y ago
        Yes, and I don’t see them moving away any time soon. It’s too much on their balance sheets (Europe is a bigger market than China for Apple, and the other two are deeply embedded with the local administrations and companies). All of them are following the legislative frameworks and adapting.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- devuo 2y ago
  > building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. Oh no. What would we poor Europeans do without a US company to lead us. /s Of course local and regional players would appear, as they always have and are already in place in multiple segments. Bolt, Glovo, Delivery Hero and many others are successful competitors to different Uber offerings in the different European markets they operate. The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse.
  - pb7 2y ago
    >The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse. It’s both. Copying a validated business model is not a sign of competency.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      You don't need to be competent, you need to make money. Japan, China et al also got wealthy by copying.
      - kmlx 2y ago
        that’s not how it works. you can’t build long term wealth just by copying. this is why both china and japan had to innovate.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

returningfory2 2y ago

I'm not sure if it will actually happen. But the theoretical "problem" with these "X% of worldwide revenue" fines is that they change the calculus of launching an existing product in Europe. It makes it so that if a company enters the EU they risk it being a net negative to revenue.

vanviegen 2y ago
Isn't that exactly the intended effect? Otherwise, why wouldn't BigCorp just ignore any inconvenient laws?
- returningfory2 2y ago
  I don't understand, are you saying the intended effect of these laws is that non-EU countries don't enter the EU market?
  - vanviegen 2y ago
    Not necessarily, but it should "change the calculus of launching an existing product in Europe", factoring in privacy laws. Either don't launch, or make sure that your product complies.
    - andersa 2y ago
      It isn't possible for an American company to actually comply.
      - max51 2y ago
        That's not a EU problem. If the US puts laws in place that prevents their company from expending overseas, that's a problem that Americans need to fix.
        andersa 2y ago
        There is nothing the companies can do about it.

eclecticfrank 2y ago

Not many will shed a tear for Uber. Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived. And no, they won't leave. They will comply in order to have access to the European market.

flanked-evergl 2y ago
> Europe had taxis, private for hire limousines, taxi apps and delivery services long before Uber arrived. All the "Uber" rip-offs in Norway are worse than Uber was last time I used it. Not that anyone can afford to use a taxi here anyway unless the government covers the bill, which they do and which is the only thing that keeps taxis employed, I think.
alex_suzuki 2y ago
At least here in non-EU Switzerland, Uber often provides superior service over regular taxis. They‘re cheaper and you can’t get ripped off by a driver choosing a more circuitous route.

Sharlin 2y ago

I doubt it. Besides Apple, none has even complained very loudly, and even Apple just did it in order to garner some sympathy points from the fans. That is, for marketing reasons. The fact is that none of this legislative stuff, this basic level of consumer protection in the EU is in any way a dealbreaker or a significant hindrance to big tech, merely a cost of doing business.

pyrale 2y ago

[flagged]

ricardo81 2y ago

Too big a market. That's the power of the EU I guess. If they can adapt to abide, they will. If they can't, quite likely due to GDPR for many US companies.

gostsamo 2y ago

twitter, hopefully. This is an aspect of Musk that I can live without.

akudha 2y ago

Why do you think they will leave? They will make noise, complain but if the choice is between following rules or give up profits, they will fall in line. Money trumps everything else. They will however keep lobbying, support candidates favorable to them etc. EU (and other governments) should be vigilant all the time. The moment they take it easy a bit, big tech will be back to their usual shenanigans

bitmasher9 2y ago
The EU fines based on global revenue. If the EU is a small part of a companies’ profit then they may decide to stay away for liability reasons.

phatfish 2y ago

Hopefully it is one of the social media parasites. But the "gig economy" is a close second.

kklisura 2y ago

Why can't big tech companies just adhere to the rule of the law?