4 ms·

AFAICT they only announced six factions, whereas the original game shipped with seven. The article doesn't seem to suggest there will be more heroes, just that

AFAICT they only announced six factions, whereas the original game shipped with seven. The article doesn't seem to suggest there will be more heroes, just that they were paying attention to making each hero more distinct from the rest (which is IMO a good thing, since the heroes were a bit generic in the originals). The spells system main difference is to reduce randomness, which again seems like an improvement. So the area where MORE seems to be happening is in the skill tree section (and the new Faction Law system). I guess that's worth criticizing, but then again if you don't make some new stuff, why bother releasing a new game and not just a HoMM3 reforged version?

gizmo 2y ago
The original HOMM was a very simple game. HOMM2 was released one year later, after learning what worked and what didn't in the original game. Then, after three more years of work HOMM3 perfected those game mechanics. That's how HOMM3 ended up in a local maximum. If you want to make a game that's better than HOMM3 in some meaningful ways I think you have to start with a much simpler game that shares some of the game mechanics. That means taking features out. Then you build on top of that to take the game in a different direction. If you take HOMM3 as a starting point you end up adding the features that were intentionally left out 25 years ago.
- bombcar 2y ago
  You also have the balance problem - it’s hard enough to make the three factions of StarCraft balanced and competitive against each other - with six or seven you have definite winners and losers when played optimally. The later HOMM games DID take them in different directions- some of which are amazing on their own, to be fair - but being saddled with the history of HOMM3 held it back, in my opinion. Judged on their own they’re interesting and fun, but as “HOMM3 but better” they fall short. Learning the original backstory for HOMM3 is eye opening - and one of the biggest rifts in the community is if the original vision is “good” or if what they shipped is “better” - I’ll admit to being in the latter camp, I think. The Cove is acceptable but feels (to me) like an even more unbalanced version of Conflux - fun to play as not so much against. I just don’t know if the sci-fi/ Factory town is something I can ever really get strongly behind. And this is from someone who has no problem with tech mods (GregTech New Horizons!) in Minecraft.
  - gizmo 2y ago
    HOMM3 is very unbalanced and I think it adds to the charm. Some spells are useless and some spells are so good they almost break the game. Same for some unit stacks. Discovering cheesy strategies that allow you to take on a horde of computer enemies was part of the fun. If you make a multiplayer game you can't have that level of whimsy. (I don't know what HOMM3 multiplayer is like and I don't know how people make it work.)
    - whaleofatw2022 2y ago
      It's turn based. You can set time limits for players. If you want to watch just a bit go on twitch. There is often at least one or two HOTA matches going.
    - bombcar 2y ago
      They make it work by banning certain spells/heroes and reducing the game to a single "aspect" if you will - when and how you do the break. It's completely different. You can learn a lot about the game from watching, and it'll improve your play, but it's not at all like a comp-stomp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiGHcM6dlw&list=PLnz-Oj9Xf0YJ4Jo12XQh1VFuHvbz6suKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiGHcM6dlw&list=PLnz-Oj9Xf0...
- whaleofatw2022 2y ago
  Agreed. Also HOMM3 evolved over 25 years is arguably just HOTA
  - TwentyPosts 2y ago
    HOTA?
    - ttoinou 2y ago
      Horn of the Abyss unofficial mod
    - me_me_me 2y ago
      Community mod, that re-balances game mechanics, fixes bugs, adds features like advanced keyboard shortcuts, fullscreen hd, two new factions, online multiplayer lobby. This game still has very active pro-scene
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  HOMM3 is definitely not perfect. Vastly different spell strength plus random spells in mage guilds sucks. Even highly varied random starting artifacts is bad. Utterly useless skills like Diplomacy. There are small and aggravating quality of life issues like the autopathing taking more movement than manually doing things because of the way diagonals work. I also consider the really abusable monster AI to be a detriment, though some people like this as it lets you access powerful resources "too early."
  - me_me_me 2y ago
    > abusable monster AI Thats a feature! It allows skilled players to outsmart the game. Speed up and snowball opponents. HOMM3 is all about getting to the point where it feels like you are cheating. Like stack of upgraded vampires, max earth magic and resurect, etc. That's what made that game so much fun.
  - 1123581321 2y ago
    Useless skills were a big part of the fun as you would scheme to lock in all your basic skills to avoid duds. And if you didn’t, you had a game of risking certain choices to get benefits early at the expense of late game hero strength. The wildly varying hero starting strengths weren’t as fun but I did enjoy how picking up on that taught the game mechanics. I remember HOMM mechanics details better than nearly any series.

gizmo 2y ago

The original HOMM was a very simple game. HOMM2 was released one year later, after learning what worked and what didn't in the original game. Then, after three more years of work HOMM3 perfected those game mechanics. That's how HOMM3 ended up in a local maximum. If you want to make a game that's better than HOMM3 in some meaningful ways I think you have to start with a much simpler game that shares some of the game mechanics. That means taking features out. Then you build on top of that to take the game in a different direction. If you take HOMM3 as a starting point you end up adding the features that were intentionally left out 25 years ago.

bombcar 2y ago
You also have the balance problem - it’s hard enough to make the three factions of StarCraft balanced and competitive against each other - with six or seven you have definite winners and losers when played optimally. The later HOMM games DID take them in different directions- some of which are amazing on their own, to be fair - but being saddled with the history of HOMM3 held it back, in my opinion. Judged on their own they’re interesting and fun, but as “HOMM3 but better” they fall short. Learning the original backstory for HOMM3 is eye opening - and one of the biggest rifts in the community is if the original vision is “good” or if what they shipped is “better” - I’ll admit to being in the latter camp, I think. The Cove is acceptable but feels (to me) like an even more unbalanced version of Conflux - fun to play as not so much against. I just don’t know if the sci-fi/ Factory town is something I can ever really get strongly behind. And this is from someone who has no problem with tech mods (GregTech New Horizons!) in Minecraft.
- gizmo 2y ago
  HOMM3 is very unbalanced and I think it adds to the charm. Some spells are useless and some spells are so good they almost break the game. Same for some unit stacks. Discovering cheesy strategies that allow you to take on a horde of computer enemies was part of the fun. If you make a multiplayer game you can't have that level of whimsy. (I don't know what HOMM3 multiplayer is like and I don't know how people make it work.)
  - whaleofatw2022 2y ago
    It's turn based. You can set time limits for players. If you want to watch just a bit go on twitch. There is often at least one or two HOTA matches going.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    They make it work by banning certain spells/heroes and reducing the game to a single "aspect" if you will - when and how you do the break. It's completely different. You can learn a lot about the game from watching, and it'll improve your play, but it's not at all like a comp-stomp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiGHcM6dlw&list=PLnz-Oj9Xf0YJ4Jo12XQh1VFuHvbz6suKo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiGHcM6dlw&list=PLnz-Oj9Xf0...
whaleofatw2022 2y ago
Agreed. Also HOMM3 evolved over 25 years is arguably just HOTA
- TwentyPosts 2y ago
  HOTA?
  - ttoinou 2y ago
    Horn of the Abyss unofficial mod
  - me_me_me 2y ago
    Community mod, that re-balances game mechanics, fixes bugs, adds features like advanced keyboard shortcuts, fullscreen hd, two new factions, online multiplayer lobby. This game still has very active pro-scene
UncleMeat 2y ago
HOMM3 is definitely not perfect. Vastly different spell strength plus random spells in mage guilds sucks. Even highly varied random starting artifacts is bad. Utterly useless skills like Diplomacy. There are small and aggravating quality of life issues like the autopathing taking more movement than manually doing things because of the way diagonals work. I also consider the really abusable monster AI to be a detriment, though some people like this as it lets you access powerful resources "too early."
- me_me_me 2y ago
  > abusable monster AI Thats a feature! It allows skilled players to outsmart the game. Speed up and snowball opponents. HOMM3 is all about getting to the point where it feels like you are cheating. Like stack of upgraded vampires, max earth magic and resurect, etc. That's what made that game so much fun.
- 1123581321 2y ago
  Useless skills were a big part of the fun as you would scheme to lock in all your basic skills to avoid duds. And if you didn’t, you had a game of risking certain choices to get benefits early at the expense of late game hero strength. The wildly varying hero starting strengths weren’t as fun but I did enjoy how picking up on that taught the game mechanics. I remember HOMM mechanics details better than nearly any series.