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Solid state batteries are the future of electric vehicle. There is no way governments let people buy fire bombs that can't be extinguished, or hardly. With the

Solid state batteries are the future of electric vehicle. There is no way governments let people buy fire bombs that can't be extinguished, or hardly. With the ev increase in popularity, it's only going to be more and more prominent. > Around 18% of EV fires occur while the car is plugged in and charging, but the percentage could be as high as 30% Also say good bye to your house if you ever decided to let it charge inside... it's incredible.

lm28469 2y ago
I'm planning my house right now and yeah the garage is a big problem, there is no way I'm keeping even an electric bicycle close to my living quarters. Gas cars can also spontaneously burn but if you have an alarm and a few fire extinguishers you have a chance to at least delay the spread until the firefighters arrive, with a battery fire you're fucked
- adriancr 2y ago
  If having an electric car in a garage is a worry then keep it outside... Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up...
  - lm28469 2y ago
    > Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... You might want to look into a few things: battery capacity, energy, chemical reactions. > Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up.. Most of them start with small electrical fires that propagate and after a looooong time finally get to the gas, nothing will explode I know EVs somehow got very polarising but come on... can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? really ? There is a reason why electric bicycles and scooters are banned from many cities public transport and buildings. Even firefighters recognise that EV fires are an absolute pain in the ass to handle. I know people love their EVs but stop drinking the kool aid after the first gallon
    - adriancr 2y ago
      > Most of them start with small electrical fires that propagate and after a looooong time finally get to the gas, nothing will explode https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft You just need a fire in an enclosed space running for a bit of time. > can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? really ? I have seen the result of a house fire due to bad laptop battery. Once a fire starts it's typically bad. If you are worried about EVs catching fire, then any battery has the same risk percentage to start a fire. (defective samsung mobile phones is a good example of an issue and it being resolved) Sure, it's much worse and much faster for an EV to catch fire. Still, a regular battery can kill you just as well. I just leave my EV outside, I don't think it will catch fire, but if it does it won't kill me. I also used to leave my gas car outside, I dont think that would catch fire either. I havent seen too many regular consumer devices starting fires so that risk might be low.
      - lm28469 2y ago
        Anything can kill... it's about managing risks. If you want to store two tesla in a garage sharing a wall with your bed room be my guest
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Far safer than a couple of gasoline cars in the same place.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      > can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? Far more people have died due to house fires started by phone batteries than car batteries. Knock the phone off your bedstand into your bed while it's charging and...
  - massysett 2y ago
    If I had an EV I’d need to charge it in my driveway, which is still close enough for a fire to ignite my wooden house.
    - adriancr 2y ago
      Are you sure about that? I would expect wooden houses to have fire retardant panelings and insulation...
  - closewith 2y ago
    Generally not a great idea to keep high capacity power tool batteries in your living space. Many insurance companies won't cover the resulting damage from a fire caused by one.
    - adriancr 2y ago
      How about in the garage?
- audunw 2y ago
  What utter nonsense. EVs are already extremely wide spread in many parts of the world, and the statistics clearly show that they’re far safer than ICE when it comes to fires. Even when people routinely charge their car at home overnight. The density of EVs in my area is insanely high (30%ish) and I haven’t even heard of a single case of an EV catching fire in a garage. The cases I’ve seen have either been on the road or during fast charge. An EV fire takes significantly longer to reach its peak than a gasoline fire. Yeah it’s possible that the electrolyte combusts in a somewhat spectacular fire at the start. That could ignite some things around the car. But electrolytes are very light and volatile. Not like gasoline that sticks around and burns for a long time. If you have a fire extinguisher you can deal with the fires that might have been started in the garage. EVs are designed to vent burning electrolyte away from the vehicle so the car itself is not likely to start burning yet. Then if you have a garden hose nearby and maybe a sprinkler, you can douse the battery pack with water. That should prevent the thermal runaway from triggering another fire until the fire department arrives. But I can not stress enough what kind of unlikely freak accident we’re talking about here. You should probably worry more about your house getting hit by lightning.
b112 2y ago
Solid state batteries are the future of electric vehicle No, H2 is. No heavy battery pack, easily created from solar or wind, eg green sources, immediate 100% refueling, low pollution and toxic waste, unlike battery creation and recycling, proven tech with multiple cars on the market, easily transportable via injection into Ng lines and extraction by filters at any point (infra already exists). Far more upside than battery tech.
- chongli 2y ago
  How do you store it in the car?
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    Toyota Mirai stores it in its internal hydrogen tanks. As any H2 bus or truck. Here are some drawings of what it looks like in the Mirai: https://www.jeccomposites.com/news/spotted-by-jec/toyoda-gosei-receives-toyotas-technology-development-award-for-development-of-high-pressure-hydrogen-tanks/ https://www.jeccomposites.com/news/spotted-by-jec/toyoda-gos....
  - b112 2y ago
    Hyundai, Kia, and Toyota have had h2 vehicles on the market for years. It's a solved problem, go look at the tech in these cars.
- Rygian 2y ago
  On the other hand, you are throwing away between half and two thirds of the energy used to refuel. (Edit: considering the energy expenditure from H2 production and the energy actually delivered to the car wheels.) And the infra to refuel my hydrogen car definitely does not exist today, anywhere in my first-world country. But I do have a wall socket. Using H2 to power cars is objectively "Uncompetitive": https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-mi...
  - b112 2y ago
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
> There is no way governments let people buy fire bombs that can't be extinguished, or hardly. People are buying those today.
api 2y ago
We let giant tanks of gasoline sit around, which are fire bombs. I’ve been in a home fire started accidentally from a gas can and it was nothing to be trifled with. Gas car fires happen all the time. They just don’t make the news because it’s the boring devil we know. Stored energy is stored energy. Anything capable of propelling a car at 60+mph for hundreds of miles contains some chemistry that really wants to party.
torginus 2y ago
Solid state batteries are also not safe. No battery is. By its very nature, if you puncture the battery, you short out the cells, current will flow, which will get turned into heat. Even if the battery is not flammable, something in its vicinity almost certainly is (plastic, rubber etc.). Especially in a house.
alphabettsy 2y ago
> Around 18% of EV fires occur while the car is plugged in and charging, but the percentage could be as high as 30% This says nothing about the incidence of the fires. ICE vehicles also catch fire, sometimes when not running and unoccupied. Without knowing the rates or numbers the figure is meaningless for comparison.

lm28469 2y ago

I'm planning my house right now and yeah the garage is a big problem, there is no way I'm keeping even an electric bicycle close to my living quarters. Gas cars can also spontaneously burn but if you have an alarm and a few fire extinguishers you have a chance to at least delay the spread until the firefighters arrive, with a battery fire you're fucked

adriancr 2y ago
If having an electric car in a garage is a worry then keep it outside... Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up...
- lm28469 2y ago
  > Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... You might want to look into a few things: battery capacity, energy, chemical reactions. > Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up.. Most of them start with small electrical fires that propagate and after a looooong time finally get to the gas, nothing will explode I know EVs somehow got very polarising but come on... can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? really ? There is a reason why electric bicycles and scooters are banned from many cities public transport and buildings. Even firefighters recognise that EV fires are an absolute pain in the ass to handle. I know people love their EVs but stop drinking the kool aid after the first gallon
  - adriancr 2y ago
    > Most of them start with small electrical fires that propagate and after a looooong time finally get to the gas, nothing will explode https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdraft You just need a fire in an enclosed space running for a bit of time. > can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? really ? I have seen the result of a house fire due to bad laptop battery. Once a fire starts it's typically bad. If you are worried about EVs catching fire, then any battery has the same risk percentage to start a fire. (defective samsung mobile phones is a good example of an issue and it being resolved) Sure, it's much worse and much faster for an EV to catch fire. Still, a regular battery can kill you just as well. I just leave my EV outside, I don't think it will catch fire, but if it does it won't kill me. I also used to leave my gas car outside, I dont think that would catch fire either. I havent seen too many regular consumer devices starting fires so that risk might be low.
    - lm28469 2y ago
      Anything can kill... it's about managing risks. If you want to store two tesla in a garage sharing a wall with your bed room be my guest
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Far safer than a couple of gasoline cars in the same place.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    > can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? Far more people have died due to house fires started by phone batteries than car batteries. Knock the phone off your bedstand into your bed while it's charging and...
- massysett 2y ago
  If I had an EV I’d need to charge it in my driveway, which is still close enough for a fire to ignite my wooden house.
  - adriancr 2y ago
    Are you sure about that? I would expect wooden houses to have fire retardant panelings and insulation...
- closewith 2y ago
  Generally not a great idea to keep high capacity power tool batteries in your living space. Many insurance companies won't cover the resulting damage from a fire caused by one.
  - adriancr 2y ago
    How about in the garage?
audunw 2y ago
What utter nonsense. EVs are already extremely wide spread in many parts of the world, and the statistics clearly show that they’re far safer than ICE when it comes to fires. Even when people routinely charge their car at home overnight. The density of EVs in my area is insanely high (30%ish) and I haven’t even heard of a single case of an EV catching fire in a garage. The cases I’ve seen have either been on the road or during fast charge. An EV fire takes significantly longer to reach its peak than a gasoline fire. Yeah it’s possible that the electrolyte combusts in a somewhat spectacular fire at the start. That could ignite some things around the car. But electrolytes are very light and volatile. Not like gasoline that sticks around and burns for a long time. If you have a fire extinguisher you can deal with the fires that might have been started in the garage. EVs are designed to vent burning electrolyte away from the vehicle so the car itself is not likely to start burning yet. Then if you have a garden hose nearby and maybe a sprinkler, you can douse the battery pack with water. That should prevent the thermal runaway from triggering another fire until the fire department arrives. But I can not stress enough what kind of unlikely freak accident we’re talking about here. You should probably worry more about your house getting hit by lightning.

b112 2y ago

Solid state batteries are the future of electric vehicle No, H2 is. No heavy battery pack, easily created from solar or wind, eg green sources, immediate 100% refueling, low pollution and toxic waste, unlike battery creation and recycling, proven tech with multiple cars on the market, easily transportable via injection into Ng lines and extraction by filters at any point (infra already exists). Far more upside than battery tech.

chongli 2y ago
How do you store it in the car?
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  Toyota Mirai stores it in its internal hydrogen tanks. As any H2 bus or truck. Here are some drawings of what it looks like in the Mirai: https://www.jeccomposites.com/news/spotted-by-jec/toyoda-gosei-receives-toyotas-technology-development-award-for-development-of-high-pressure-hydrogen-tanks/ https://www.jeccomposites.com/news/spotted-by-jec/toyoda-gos....
- b112 2y ago
  Hyundai, Kia, and Toyota have had h2 vehicles on the market for years. It's a solved problem, go look at the tech in these cars.
Rygian 2y ago
On the other hand, you are throwing away between half and two thirds of the energy used to refuel. (Edit: considering the energy expenditure from H2 production and the energy actually delivered to the car wheels.) And the infra to refuel my hydrogen car definitely does not exist today, anywhere in my first-world country. But I do have a wall socket. Using H2 to power cars is objectively "Uncompetitive": https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-mi...
- b112 2y ago

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

> There is no way governments let people buy fire bombs that can't be extinguished, or hardly. People are buying those today.

api 2y ago

We let giant tanks of gasoline sit around, which are fire bombs. I’ve been in a home fire started accidentally from a gas can and it was nothing to be trifled with. Gas car fires happen all the time. They just don’t make the news because it’s the boring devil we know. Stored energy is stored energy. Anything capable of propelling a car at 60+mph for hundreds of miles contains some chemistry that really wants to party.

torginus 2y ago

Solid state batteries are also not safe. No battery is. By its very nature, if you puncture the battery, you short out the cells, current will flow, which will get turned into heat. Even if the battery is not flammable, something in its vicinity almost certainly is (plastic, rubber etc.). Especially in a house.

alphabettsy 2y ago

> Around 18% of EV fires occur while the car is plugged in and charging, but the percentage could be as high as 30% This says nothing about the incidence of the fires. ICE vehicles also catch fire, sometimes when not running and unoccupied. Without knowing the rates or numbers the figure is meaningless for comparison.