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> Funding the government must be done by force for it to work. Since the U.S. issues its own fiat currency, revenue isn't necessary to fund expenditures—the go

by miles 2y ago

> Funding the government must be done by force for it to work. Since the U.S. issues its own fiat currency, revenue isn't necessary to fund expenditures—the government can create new money as needed. Also, since the Constitution explicitly grants the power to issue and regulate money to Congress, it has long been argued that an independent central bank like the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional.

prng2021 2y ago
Are you saying the government should eliminate taxes and print $4.5T a year instead?
- para_parolu 2y ago
  Isn’t it already happening?
  - prng2021 2y ago
    What do you mean its already happening? The US takes in $4.5T a year in tax revenue. Or are you implying that they already print some money today so they can just print a lot more? Why do you think the government doesn't just print $45T and eliminate all their debt? I mean why doesn't every economically poorer country just print the equivalent of $100T and leap past the US?
- kaliqt 2y ago
  See, we get the worst end of this stick.
gamblor956 2y ago
The Federal Reserve does not issue money...The U.S Treasury issues money. The Federal Reserve processes payments for the federal government, manages the the flow of money through banks, and acts as the bank of last resort. It is also, very importantly, not an independent bank; it was created and authorized by Congressional statute to be the central bank of the U.S..
mitthrowaway2 2y ago
You are technically correct -- the best kind of correct -- but the consequence of minting new money as needed without pulling anything out of circulation is very high inflation, and the consequence of very high inflation is loss of faith in the currency, adoption of alternate forms of money, and ultimately, the diminishment of government purchasing power (money printing or no). So the government technically can spend without taxing, but not if it wants to remain effective.
h_tbob 2y ago
If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again! What innovations would we have today technologically if people said that about AI for example. Imagine if Elon said “no point in making openai. AGI has been tried and failed” It’s was tried hundreds of years ago in the days before the internet. That alone should give us the courage to try again. Things happen so quickly now, we could set up a different incentive structure. Let’s say you have 10 billion dollars. Would you pay 1% annually to have it protected by the government? If you fail to pay.. no visits by the irs. You’re golden… but if somebody steals, since you didn’t pay your “social contract” and give back part of it to government and social programs, you don’t get protection. I think this is a very basic idea. I’m just saying we need to be creative and have the courage to try new ideas. Failure is ok! That’s how we know we are growing. It’s like my dad said. “If you aren’t making mistakes, it generally means you are working for someone who is” In other words the leaders of the world make mistakes as part of the process of growing. Let’s stand up and change things. It may not work perfect, but at least we will learn so those after us can do better!

by miles 2y ago

prng2021 2y ago

Are you saying the government should eliminate taxes and print $4.5T a year instead?

para_parolu 2y ago
Isn’t it already happening?
- prng2021 2y ago
  What do you mean its already happening? The US takes in $4.5T a year in tax revenue. Or are you implying that they already print some money today so they can just print a lot more? Why do you think the government doesn't just print $45T and eliminate all their debt? I mean why doesn't every economically poorer country just print the equivalent of $100T and leap past the US?
kaliqt 2y ago
See, we get the worst end of this stick.

gamblor956 2y ago

The Federal Reserve does not issue money...The U.S Treasury issues money. The Federal Reserve processes payments for the federal government, manages the the flow of money through banks, and acts as the bank of last resort. It is also, very importantly, not an independent bank; it was created and authorized by Congressional statute to be the central bank of the U.S..

mitthrowaway2 2y ago

You are technically correct -- the best kind of correct -- but the consequence of minting new money as needed without pulling anything out of circulation is very high inflation, and the consequence of very high inflation is loss of faith in the currency, adoption of alternate forms of money, and ultimately, the diminishment of government purchasing power (money printing or no). So the government technically can spend without taxing, but not if it wants to remain effective.

h_tbob 2y ago

If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again! What innovations would we have today technologically if people said that about AI for example. Imagine if Elon said “no point in making openai. AGI has been tried and failed” It’s was tried hundreds of years ago in the days before the internet. That alone should give us the courage to try again. Things happen so quickly now, we could set up a different incentive structure. Let’s say you have 10 billion dollars. Would you pay 1% annually to have it protected by the government? If you fail to pay.. no visits by the irs. You’re golden… but if somebody steals, since you didn’t pay your “social contract” and give back part of it to government and social programs, you don’t get protection. I think this is a very basic idea. I’m just saying we need to be creative and have the courage to try new ideas. Failure is ok! That’s how we know we are growing. It’s like my dad said. “If you aren’t making mistakes, it generally means you are working for someone who is” In other words the leaders of the world make mistakes as part of the process of growing. Let’s stand up and change things. It may not work perfect, but at least we will learn so those after us can do better!