3 ms·

The term "car-free" seems designed to create engagement via rage bait rather than being any sort of assessment of reality. Obviously people are going to use ca

by throwaway22032 2y ago

The term "car-free" seems designed to create engagement via rage bait rather than being any sort of assessment of reality. Obviously people are going to use cars to get to the Olympics. They'll park around the block and get taxis in, or they'll park near a metro station, or they'll drive from say, Vegas to LA, etc. I guess that saying that they'll put on more public transport and not have actual car parks at the venues doesn't sound as shiny.

Ekaros 2y ago
Why do these "car free" utopias always include Taxis? Shouldn't they be first to go... As they are easily replaced by busses.
- rcdemski 2y ago
  I think they’re a nice half step where it keeps me from driving and taking up parking space at the destination. Bus routes help but don’t service original/destination as specifically as a taxi. Accordingly, the taxi costs significantly more than a bus. I’ll happily take a bus or rail for commuting where I know what to expect for service reliability and connection times. If I’m doing a one off trip it’ll be a hired car.
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    lol. I used to think the same when I lived in the US. Now, I walk 5 mins to a bus to the train station, another 5 mins to my train, wait 5 minutes, then enjoy the half-hour ride (while reading a book) to the next train station, and finally hop on a bus that takes me 5 minutes from work. Total commute time: 45 + 15 minutes walk. By car: 70-90 minutes. Why? The train goes 180 km/h while cars only go 120, and there is usually a traffic jam during rush hour. If you put bus stops where people actually live and work, you can get pretty good coverage.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - fjsjaia 2y ago
      I basically have the same commute here in LA as you. ~50 mins between walking, waiting, and taking transit to get to work. However its simply faster to drive straight there. I can do it in 35 mins, but I opt for the transit to read a book and not pay to park at work (free parking you pay in time looking for it). Most peoples car commute in LA is only about 30 mins because of how polycentric the job network is in LA county (which makes it hard to create extremely in demand transit routes if everyone is going everywhere all the time vs a centralized hub and spoke city).
      - tomjakubowski 2y ago
        Hub and spoke has disadvantages. A perfectly efficient transit system has two-way flow all day long: otherwise parts of the system are being overused or underused. Jarrett Walker over at humantransit has written extensively about this. https://humantransit.org/2010/02/the-power-and-pleasure-of-grids.html https://humantransit.org/2010/02/the-power-and-pleasure-of-g... And on LA in particular: https://humantransit.org/2010/03/los-angeles-the-transit-metropolis.html https://humantransit.org/2010/03/los-angeles-the-transit-met...
- wredue 2y ago
  Taxis and other ride shares are easier to electrify than literally every car on the planet. Everyone using a taxi cuts on traffic more than everyone driving a car. Fewer places need to be space wasted with ugly, hot pavement. Taxis service a need that are not realistically handled by large mode transportation loops. People who say we need to go car free also acknowledge reality and don’t absolutely need to take things to the extreme to make slippery slope argumentative muddy water. Why “car free” and not something more in tune with the actual idea? Why “serverless”? Why “lock free data structures”? PATRIOT act? “Truth” social? I mean. The list of obviously ridiculous names that are not true their reality goes on and on and on and on.
- rty32 2y ago
  I don't know in which world busses can "easily" "replace" taxis. They are almost two completely different things serving different people with different purposes/priorities.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  Taxis could solve last mile problems fairly efficiently. Or maybe tuktuks, but there is a role for them, not the way they are used now though. They also make it easier to live without a car, so you use mass transit most of the time and have a flex to use personal transport when needed. As opposed to the sunk cost of a private car with parking. In China in 1999, I would take a tuktuk to the subway stop and then often from the subway stop on the other side of my trip. Later on when I lived there from 2007, I didn’t feel like I needed a car since we had subways and taxis, why bother?

Ekaros 2y ago

Why do these "car free" utopias always include Taxis? Shouldn't they be first to go... As they are easily replaced by busses.

rcdemski 2y ago
I think they’re a nice half step where it keeps me from driving and taking up parking space at the destination. Bus routes help but don’t service original/destination as specifically as a taxi. Accordingly, the taxi costs significantly more than a bus. I’ll happily take a bus or rail for commuting where I know what to expect for service reliability and connection times. If I’m doing a one off trip it’ll be a hired car.
- withinboredom 2y ago
  lol. I used to think the same when I lived in the US. Now, I walk 5 mins to a bus to the train station, another 5 mins to my train, wait 5 minutes, then enjoy the half-hour ride (while reading a book) to the next train station, and finally hop on a bus that takes me 5 minutes from work. Total commute time: 45 + 15 minutes walk. By car: 70-90 minutes. Why? The train goes 180 km/h while cars only go 120, and there is usually a traffic jam during rush hour. If you put bus stops where people actually live and work, you can get pretty good coverage.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - fjsjaia 2y ago
    I basically have the same commute here in LA as you. ~50 mins between walking, waiting, and taking transit to get to work. However its simply faster to drive straight there. I can do it in 35 mins, but I opt for the transit to read a book and not pay to park at work (free parking you pay in time looking for it). Most peoples car commute in LA is only about 30 mins because of how polycentric the job network is in LA county (which makes it hard to create extremely in demand transit routes if everyone is going everywhere all the time vs a centralized hub and spoke city).
    - tomjakubowski 2y ago
      Hub and spoke has disadvantages. A perfectly efficient transit system has two-way flow all day long: otherwise parts of the system are being overused or underused. Jarrett Walker over at humantransit has written extensively about this. https://humantransit.org/2010/02/the-power-and-pleasure-of-grids.html https://humantransit.org/2010/02/the-power-and-pleasure-of-g... And on LA in particular: https://humantransit.org/2010/03/los-angeles-the-transit-metropolis.html https://humantransit.org/2010/03/los-angeles-the-transit-met...
wredue 2y ago
Taxis and other ride shares are easier to electrify than literally every car on the planet. Everyone using a taxi cuts on traffic more than everyone driving a car. Fewer places need to be space wasted with ugly, hot pavement. Taxis service a need that are not realistically handled by large mode transportation loops. People who say we need to go car free also acknowledge reality and don’t absolutely need to take things to the extreme to make slippery slope argumentative muddy water. Why “car free” and not something more in tune with the actual idea? Why “serverless”? Why “lock free data structures”? PATRIOT act? “Truth” social? I mean. The list of obviously ridiculous names that are not true their reality goes on and on and on and on.
rty32 2y ago
I don't know in which world busses can "easily" "replace" taxis. They are almost two completely different things serving different people with different purposes/priorities.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Taxis could solve last mile problems fairly efficiently. Or maybe tuktuks, but there is a role for them, not the way they are used now though. They also make it easier to live without a car, so you use mass transit most of the time and have a flex to use personal transport when needed. As opposed to the sunk cost of a private car with parking. In China in 1999, I would take a tuktuk to the subway stop and then often from the subway stop on the other side of my trip. Later on when I lived there from 2007, I didn’t feel like I needed a car since we had subways and taxis, why bother?