5 ms·

Electric vehicle battery fires–what to know and how to react

17 points by Archelaos 2y ago

jaggs 2y ago
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/the-latest-car-fire-statistics/ https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/the-latest-car-fire-statistics/ *Electric vehicles are 20 times LESS likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles*
- blueflow 2y ago
  Lets look a the costs for the wreck disposal.
  - silverscania2 2y ago
    Yes lets
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  What is the rate of "User-interaction needed for fire" to "Stand-alone-fire"?
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    Yeah, a fire that occurs when the car is being driven is a lot different than a fire that happens in the middle of the night when the car is parked in an attached garage. I'm sure the latter sometimes happens with gas cars but the relative rates seem relevant. I searched around and did find some interesting statistics; most car fires resulting in fatalities occurred due to crashes. 80% of car fire fatalities are men. This strongly suggests that reckless behavior is by far the greatest risk factor. https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/research/nfpa-research/fire-statistical-reports/vehicle-fires https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/research/nfpa-re...
- pipeline_peak 2y ago
  20 times less likely by average? There are a lot less ev on the road.
  - silverscania2 2y ago
    > An analysis of car fire reports from 2012 to 2022 revealed that a passenger EV battery has a 0.0012% of catching fire, while the same sample indicates that ICE cars have a 0.1% chance of catching fire.
  - racc1337 2y ago
    "EVs were involved in approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 sold. Comparatively, approximately 1,530 gasoline-powered vehicles and 3,475 hybrid vehicles were involved in fires for every 100,000 sold." https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/environment-energy-coordination/climate-matters/EV-less-fire-risk https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/environment-energy-coordinatio...
    - mirekrusin 2y ago
      Sounds like some "forgot to mention year sold/age" shenanigans.
      - jewayne 2y ago
        Yeah, there really should be something akin to human mortality risks available, but for cars. Human mortality is always divided up by age, and various car risks should also be divided up by model year.
  - audunw 2y ago
    20 times less likely compare to an ICE vehicles of similar model and age. The amount of EVs on the road in Norway is fairly close to the number of ICE vehicles. So the statistics coming from those areas are very robust.
    - Thlom 2y ago
- lm28469 2y ago
  And 20 times harder to handle ?
  - audunw 2y ago
    Not really. If there’s thermal runaway you may have to douse them with water for a few hours. But there’s equipment now that can help with this, letting the firefighters walk away while the car battery safely dissipates its heat.
- jaggs 2y ago
  Interesting to see some nice fossil fuel talking points in this thread. All to be made redundant since we're on the cusp of a massive revolution in battery costs and safe chemistry. Things are about to get interesting. :) https://theconversation.com/a-battery-price-war-is-kicking-off-that-could-soon-make-electric-cars-cheaper-heres-how-225165 https://theconversation.com/a-battery-price-war-is-kicking-o...
Shank 2y ago
Most EVs have specific guides for fire fighting. For example, Tesla’s include the HV disconnects that need to be cut or disabled, and the best way to fight it: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders
- torginus 2y ago
  Imagine there being hundreds of models of different make and model year of EV, and you are a firefighter facing down a vehicle in the process of turning itself into superheated slag while spewing toxic smoke, and you have to play the game of whack-a-mole of trying to find where to cut so that you don't get 400 volts in your face, while trying to save the people trapped inside.
  - k8sToGo 2y ago
    That's why every car has a first responder chart. It is fairly normal and nothing new.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      Where? Genuinely curiuos, I've been over my vehicle and haven't seen one. It's a Ford Mach E, so knowing how to isolate the HV system if I must would be nice. The owner's manual version includes removing the frunk, which is a lot of work.
      - alphabettsy 2y ago
        QR code on the B-pillar or under fuel/charging port?
        falcolas 2y ago
        Nada. The only QR code is the VIN number.
        2y ago
aucisson_masque 2y ago
Solid state batteries are the future of electric vehicle. There is no way governments let people buy fire bombs that can't be extinguished, or hardly. With the ev increase in popularity, it's only going to be more and more prominent. > Around 18% of EV fires occur while the car is plugged in and charging, but the percentage could be as high as 30% Also say good bye to your house if you ever decided to let it charge inside... it's incredible.
- lm28469 2y ago
  I'm planning my house right now and yeah the garage is a big problem, there is no way I'm keeping even an electric bicycle close to my living quarters. Gas cars can also spontaneously burn but if you have an alarm and a few fire extinguishers you have a chance to at least delay the spread until the firefighters arrive, with a battery fire you're fucked
  - adriancr 2y ago
    If having an electric car in a garage is a worry then keep it outside... Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up...
    - lm28469 2y ago
      > Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... You might want to look into a few things: battery capacity, energy, chemical reactions. > Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up.. Most of them start with small electrical fires that propagate and after a looooong time finally get to the gas, nothing will explode I know EVs somehow got very polarising but come on... can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? really ? There is a reason why electric bicycles and scooters are banned from many cities public transport and buildings. Even firefighters recognise that EV fires are an absolute pain in the ass to handle. I know people love their EVs but stop drinking the kool aid after the first gallon
YuccaGloriosa 2y ago
"According to the National Fire Prevention Agency, if an EV ever catches fire while you’re behind the wheel, immediately find a safe way to pull over and get the car away from the main road. Then, turn off the engine and make sure everyone leaves the vehicle immediately." Which engine should I be turning off?
- closewith 2y ago
  Presumably a reference to PHEVs.
- rwmj 2y ago
  They should have written turn the ignition off ("ignition" also being a misnomer for EVs!). That will disconnect the battery, which won't stop the fire but will make firefighting slightly safer.
GaggiX 2y ago
It's incredible how they talk about solid state batteries in the safer batteries section, but not about LFP batteries, which are much safer than the usual NMC and NCA batteries.

17 points by Archelaos 2y ago

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/the-latest-car-fire-statistics/ https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/the-latest-car-fire-statistics/ *Electric vehicles are 20 times LESS likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles*

blueflow 2y ago
Lets look a the costs for the wreck disposal.
- silverscania2 2y ago
  Yes lets
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
What is the rate of "User-interaction needed for fire" to "Stand-alone-fire"?
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Yeah, a fire that occurs when the car is being driven is a lot different than a fire that happens in the middle of the night when the car is parked in an attached garage. I'm sure the latter sometimes happens with gas cars but the relative rates seem relevant. I searched around and did find some interesting statistics; most car fires resulting in fatalities occurred due to crashes. 80% of car fire fatalities are men. This strongly suggests that reckless behavior is by far the greatest risk factor. https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/research/nfpa-research/fire-statistical-reports/vehicle-fires https://www.nfpa.org/education-and-research/research/nfpa-re...
pipeline_peak 2y ago
20 times less likely by average? There are a lot less ev on the road.
- silverscania2 2y ago
  > An analysis of car fire reports from 2012 to 2022 revealed that a passenger EV battery has a 0.0012% of catching fire, while the same sample indicates that ICE cars have a 0.1% chance of catching fire.
- racc1337 2y ago
  "EVs were involved in approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 sold. Comparatively, approximately 1,530 gasoline-powered vehicles and 3,475 hybrid vehicles were involved in fires for every 100,000 sold." https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/environment-energy-coordination/climate-matters/EV-less-fire-risk https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/environment-energy-coordinatio...
  - mirekrusin 2y ago
    Sounds like some "forgot to mention year sold/age" shenanigans.
    - jewayne 2y ago
      Yeah, there really should be something akin to human mortality risks available, but for cars. Human mortality is always divided up by age, and various car risks should also be divided up by model year.
- audunw 2y ago
  20 times less likely compare to an ICE vehicles of similar model and age. The amount of EVs on the road in Norway is fairly close to the number of ICE vehicles. So the statistics coming from those areas are very robust.
  - Thlom 2y ago
lm28469 2y ago
And 20 times harder to handle ?
- audunw 2y ago
  Not really. If there’s thermal runaway you may have to douse them with water for a few hours. But there’s equipment now that can help with this, letting the firefighters walk away while the car battery safely dissipates its heat.
jaggs 2y ago
Interesting to see some nice fossil fuel talking points in this thread. All to be made redundant since we're on the cusp of a massive revolution in battery costs and safe chemistry. Things are about to get interesting. :) https://theconversation.com/a-battery-price-war-is-kicking-off-that-could-soon-make-electric-cars-cheaper-heres-how-225165 https://theconversation.com/a-battery-price-war-is-kicking-o...

Shank 2y ago

Most EVs have specific guides for fire fighting. For example, Tesla’s include the HV disconnects that need to be cut or disabled, and the best way to fight it: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders

torginus 2y ago
Imagine there being hundreds of models of different make and model year of EV, and you are a firefighter facing down a vehicle in the process of turning itself into superheated slag while spewing toxic smoke, and you have to play the game of whack-a-mole of trying to find where to cut so that you don't get 400 volts in your face, while trying to save the people trapped inside.
- k8sToGo 2y ago
  That's why every car has a first responder chart. It is fairly normal and nothing new.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    Where? Genuinely curiuos, I've been over my vehicle and haven't seen one. It's a Ford Mach E, so knowing how to isolate the HV system if I must would be nice. The owner's manual version includes removing the frunk, which is a lot of work.
    - alphabettsy 2y ago
      QR code on the B-pillar or under fuel/charging port?
      - falcolas 2y ago
        Nada. The only QR code is the VIN number.
        2y ago

aucisson_masque 2y ago

Solid state batteries are the future of electric vehicle. There is no way governments let people buy fire bombs that can't be extinguished, or hardly. With the ev increase in popularity, it's only going to be more and more prominent. > Around 18% of EV fires occur while the car is plugged in and charging, but the percentage could be as high as 30% Also say good bye to your house if you ever decided to let it charge inside... it's incredible.

lm28469 2y ago
I'm planning my house right now and yeah the garage is a big problem, there is no way I'm keeping even an electric bicycle close to my living quarters. Gas cars can also spontaneously burn but if you have an alarm and a few fire extinguishers you have a chance to at least delay the spread until the firefighters arrive, with a battery fire you're fucked
- adriancr 2y ago
  If having an electric car in a garage is a worry then keep it outside... Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up...
  - lm28469 2y ago
    > Also, if that worries you, you should probably worry about anything battery powered. That means phones, RC toys, laptops, external battery packs, power tools... You might want to look into a few things: battery capacity, energy, chemical reactions. > Lastly, if your gas car spontaneously starts burning in a garage, it's probably not a good idea to rush to an enclosed garage, opening door/window might cause a blow up.. Most of them start with small electrical fires that propagate and after a looooong time finally get to the gas, nothing will explode I know EVs somehow got very polarising but come on... can't you tell the difference between a phone battery and a car battery ? really ? There is a reason why electric bicycles and scooters are banned from many cities public transport and buildings. Even firefighters recognise that EV fires are an absolute pain in the ass to handle. I know people love their EVs but stop drinking the kool aid after the first gallon

YuccaGloriosa 2y ago

"According to the National Fire Prevention Agency, if an EV ever catches fire while you’re behind the wheel, immediately find a safe way to pull over and get the car away from the main road. Then, turn off the engine and make sure everyone leaves the vehicle immediately." Which engine should I be turning off?

closewith 2y ago
Presumably a reference to PHEVs.
rwmj 2y ago
They should have written turn the ignition off ("ignition" also being a misnomer for EVs!). That will disconnect the battery, which won't stop the fire but will make firefighting slightly safer.

GaggiX 2y ago

It's incredible how they talk about solid state batteries in the safer batteries section, but not about LFP batteries, which are much safer than the usual NMC and NCA batteries.