5 ms·

You might be surprised to learn who's doing the pushing: https://www.wired.com/story/europes-moral-crusader-lays-down-the-law-on-encryption/ https://www.wired.

by T-A 2y ago

You might be surprised to learn who's doing the pushing: https://www.wired.com/story/europes-moral-crusader-lays-down-the-law-on-encryption/ https://www.wired.com/story/europes-moral-crusader-lays-down... https://www.statewatch.org/news/2024/july/police-should-have-more-say-in-the-eu-policy-making-process-says-swedish-government/ https://www.statewatch.org/news/2024/july/police-should-have...

attendant3446 2y ago
No wonder it's Swedish, a country with zero privacy
a1o 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
I_am_uncreative 2y ago
I'm not. The Swedish government is a lot like California's: it's a lot less progressive than it pretends to be.
- akira2501 2y ago
  It's not progressive. It's protectionist. The people they're protecting carry a lot of guilt, and so really like the "progressive" label, it's puts a really nice spin on their particular version of graft and corruption.
  - ardaoweo 2y ago
    Yep. If the Swedish government really cared about children, they would do something to stop the massive underage gang violence problem the country has. 12 year olds being used as hitmen for drug gangs is not normal, yet that's the reality.
    - okr 2y ago
      gangs of 12 year old roaming the swedish streets? you sure, it's not monty python playing in your head?
      - wordofx 2y ago
        [flagged]
        okr 2y ago
        Since ppl exaggerate individual cases to a generic form, i remain sceptical about "gang of 12 year old". not to say, it doesnt exists. everything is hyperbole on the internet.
        tovazm 2y ago
        It’s quite common for migrant families to takes a few years off their kids age when they arrive, so they’ll adapt more easily, learnt the language and whatnot.
        okr 2y ago
        This makes sense to me, to change the birthdate, to get additional support. A lot of young people looking a tad older. But when crimes are reported, where do officials get the birthdates from? Or do they reporting most likelies?
        boxed 2y ago
        I've lived in Sweden all my life. This is 100% real. These gangs have guns, knives, sometimes even hand grenades.
        estomagordo 2y ago
        This is of course a blatant lie. Anyone familiar with Sweden (or rational thought) will know this. But underlying for our international friends. It's a bizarre lie, not the least because it so obviously does not hold up to even the most basic scrutiny.
walterbell 2y ago
Durov 2024 interview, https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-tucker-carlson-podcast/pavel-durov https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-tucker-carlson-podcas... [text] & https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-interview-pavel-durov https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-interview-pavel... [video] > Telegram has been used by protesters in places like Hong Kong, Belarus, Kazakhstan, even in Barcelona back in the day. It's been a tool for the opposition to a large extent. But it doesn't really matter whether it's opposition or the ruling party that is using Telegram. For us, we apply the rules equally to all sides. We don't become prejudiced in this way. > It's not that we are rooting for the opposition or we are rooting for the ruling party. It's not that we don't care, but we think it's important to have this platform that is neutral to all voices because we believe that the competition of different ideas can result in progress and a better world for everyone.. You don't want to be geopolitically aligned. You don't want to select the winners in any of these political fights.
- panarky 2y ago
  Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram takes no action. They're making a choice to provide a platform for this material. That's against the law and prison time is absolutely justified.
  - walterbell 2y ago
    In cases where there is public evidence of illegal activity, where incidents have been reported to law enforcement, does Telegram provide LE with account information (e.g. phone number) for further investigation? Similar to Apple transparency reports? https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ > the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in several cases. According to SPIEGEL information, this was data from suspects in the areas of child abuse and terrorism. In the case of violations of other criminal offenses, it is still difficult for German investigators to obtain information from Telegram, according to security circles. Signal and Telegram were publicly sparring in May 2024, https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-and-transparency https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-a... > two popular chat services have accused each other of having undisclosed government ties. According to Signal president Meredith Whittaker, Telegram is not only “notoriously insecure” but also “routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” Telegram founder Pavel Durov, on the other hand, claims that “the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption” and Signal’s current leaders are “activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.”
the_third_wave 2y ago
Ylva Johansson, a "former" Communist who joined the social democratic party when that turned out to be a more sure-fire way to gain power is decidedly not the Swedish government. It it people like her and the policies they implemented which pushed the "Sweden Democrats" (a somewhat conservative nationalist party, their program resembles they of the social democratic party in the 1950's-1960's) to become the second-biggest party in the country.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  And yet the current Swedish government appointed her again to the European Commission.
  - nioj 2y ago
    It doesn't look like she will be the Swedish government's pick: https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-picks-next-eu-commissioner-jessika-roswall/ https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-picks-next-eu-commiss...

by T-A 2y ago

attendant3446 2y ago

No wonder it's Swedish, a country with zero privacy

a1o 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

I_am_uncreative 2y ago

I'm not. The Swedish government is a lot like California's: it's a lot less progressive than it pretends to be.

akira2501 2y ago
It's not progressive. It's protectionist. The people they're protecting carry a lot of guilt, and so really like the "progressive" label, it's puts a really nice spin on their particular version of graft and corruption.
- ardaoweo 2y ago
  Yep. If the Swedish government really cared about children, they would do something to stop the massive underage gang violence problem the country has. 12 year olds being used as hitmen for drug gangs is not normal, yet that's the reality.
  - okr 2y ago
    gangs of 12 year old roaming the swedish streets? you sure, it's not monty python playing in your head?
    - wordofx 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - okr 2y ago
        Since ppl exaggerate individual cases to a generic form, i remain sceptical about "gang of 12 year old". not to say, it doesnt exists. everything is hyperbole on the internet.
        tovazm 2y ago
        It’s quite common for migrant families to takes a few years off their kids age when they arrive, so they’ll adapt more easily, learnt the language and whatnot.
        okr 2y ago
        This makes sense to me, to change the birthdate, to get additional support. A lot of young people looking a tad older. But when crimes are reported, where do officials get the birthdates from? Or do they reporting most likelies?
        boxed 2y ago
        I've lived in Sweden all my life. This is 100% real. These gangs have guns, knives, sometimes even hand grenades.
      - estomagordo 2y ago
        This is of course a blatant lie. Anyone familiar with Sweden (or rational thought) will know this. But underlying for our international friends. It's a bizarre lie, not the least because it so obviously does not hold up to even the most basic scrutiny.

walterbell 2y ago

Durov 2024 interview, https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-tucker-carlson-podcast/pavel-durov https://www.happyscribe.com/public/the-tucker-carlson-podcas... [text] & https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-interview-pavel-durov https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-interview-pavel... [video] > Telegram has been used by protesters in places like Hong Kong, Belarus, Kazakhstan, even in Barcelona back in the day. It's been a tool for the opposition to a large extent. But it doesn't really matter whether it's opposition or the ruling party that is using Telegram. For us, we apply the rules equally to all sides. We don't become prejudiced in this way. > It's not that we are rooting for the opposition or we are rooting for the ruling party. It's not that we don't care, but we think it's important to have this platform that is neutral to all voices because we believe that the competition of different ideas can result in progress and a better world for everyone.. You don't want to be geopolitically aligned. You don't want to select the winners in any of these political fights.

panarky 2y ago
Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram takes no action. They're making a choice to provide a platform for this material. That's against the law and prison time is absolutely justified.
- walterbell 2y ago
  In cases where there is public evidence of illegal activity, where incidents have been reported to law enforcement, does Telegram provide LE with account information (e.g. phone number) for further investigation? Similar to Apple transparency reports? https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ > the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in several cases. According to SPIEGEL information, this was data from suspects in the areas of child abuse and terrorism. In the case of violations of other criminal offenses, it is still difficult for German investigators to obtain information from Telegram, according to security circles. Signal and Telegram were publicly sparring in May 2024, https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-and-transparency https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/chat-apps-government-ties-a... > two popular chat services have accused each other of having undisclosed government ties. According to Signal president Meredith Whittaker, Telegram is not only “notoriously insecure” but also “routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.” Telegram founder Pavel Durov, on the other hand, claims that “the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption” and Signal’s current leaders are “activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.”

the_third_wave 2y ago

Ylva Johansson, a "former" Communist who joined the social democratic party when that turned out to be a more sure-fire way to gain power is decidedly not the Swedish government. It it people like her and the policies they implemented which pushed the "Sweden Democrats" (a somewhat conservative nationalist party, their program resembles they of the social democratic party in the 1950's-1960's) to become the second-biggest party in the country.

inglor_cz 2y ago
And yet the current Swedish government appointed her again to the European Commission.
- nioj 2y ago
  It doesn't look like she will be the Swedish government's pick: https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-picks-next-eu-commissioner-jessika-roswall/ https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-picks-next-eu-commiss...