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So many bad takes in that article. It will be interesting to look back in 5+ years to see how things play out vs this unlimited optimism. > "everyone is a prog

So many bad takes in that article. It will be interesting to look back in 5+ years to see how things play out vs this unlimited optimism. > "everyone is a programmer now" I’ve heard this about so many things. Various tool they make everyone a programmer, or everyone a DBA. Nice dreams, that never seem to play out. Being a programmer isn’t about the syntax, it’s about breaking problems down, so they can logically be built back up in code. I have yet to see anyone without an extensive background in programming write good spec for what they want code to do. How many assumptions are we comfortable having AI make? On my last project I was given 1 sentence of direction, and the people giving the direction truly thought that’s all they needed to say… or it was the extent of their understanding of the topic. It took thousands of lines of code, backed by a bunch of testing and design decisions, informed by 15+ years with the company and the various personalities involved, to make that 1 sentence a reality in a way that would make sense for the organization. Call me a cynic, but I don’t see AI doing a good job with something like that in a world where “everyone is a programmer.” I did try putting it in Copilot at the start, just to see what it dumped out. It gave me maybe 40 lines of broken code. It was the blog post version of how to do it, not an enterprise solution.

mrinfinitiesx 2y ago
I think the enterprise stuff is programmers become more tool-assisted, so fewer programmers are needed. A team of two seniors and 6 juniors can just be two seniors. As you said, it's mostly breaking down a problem and knowing what's needed, then telling it what components are needed. 'Make me a function that does this and that' I use it all the time to make things I know I can make but it makes it, if it makes it a weird way I modify the prompt to tell it not to make it that way. Good for frameworks for skeleton code and simple hacking things together at sysadmin level and tinkering with things. Not sure about full fledged program projects though. Helps devs get 'unstuck' if they get the writers block. It's absolutely changing the game for marketing, bizdev, and programmers now. Intel layoffs ~20,000, IBM ~24,000. Kind of scary. Smart people with better tools can be a dominant force. So, yeah programmers might be looking for newer skillsets. Operations and Sysadmins I don't forsee ever changing, especially with AI. As you said, will be interesting to look back in five years and see.
- piperswe 2y ago
  If we're replacing 2 seniors and 6 juniors with just 2 seniors, where are you gonna get more seniors when the 2 retire?
  - treyd 2y ago
    That problem isn't in scope. That's a long term issue, we care about returns we can deliver in the next 2 quarters.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    The same way that currently most HR departments only care about people with at least 10 years experience in exactly the same stack the company is using, and more often than not, training is not even part of the picture.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > If we're replacing 2 seniors and 6 juniors with just 2 seniors, where are you gonna get more seniors when the 2 retire? Happily drive off a cliff?
    - jedmeyers 2y ago
      With a golden parachute nonetheless.
- fragmede 2y ago
  try https://github.com/OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter https://github.com/OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter. sysadmining stuff just got a whole lot easier. I've been admining Linux systems for over two decades, but I give LLMs a shot at dealing with some stupid Unix shit so I don't have to. it won't get 100% of the problems, but I can ask it to fix the mess made of, say, my system SSL certificate authorities, and it won't judge me for saying SSL and not TLS and it'll go off and try the first couple of fixes it basically the same way I would, saving me time while I work on something else.
  - 2y ago
samsk 2y ago
I'll be afraid when AI takes a bug report with that typical one sentence problem description (like 'Paypal payments are not being processed, we loose 30k a day'), and fixes the problematic one line of code that the AI wrote before.
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
They despise dependencies so much. Half of there life is to get rid of them - declared as "risks" and "depending on some guy down the hall who codes really well" just makes them loose sleep at night. And they put so much effort into this side-quest. No code, low code, everyone codes, simple languages, uml-programing,graph-based programing, so easy my intern can do it, outsourced programming, code by specs, all just to get rid of that dependency that can not be- and it never works out. The complexity was inside the company and its product all along.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  I guess dependency is powerlessness and thus depending on programming, without the ability to control your destiny, is the equivalent of power thirsty sociopath torture. Makes ones life that one notch more beautiful, going into work..

mrinfinitiesx 2y ago

I think the enterprise stuff is programmers become more tool-assisted, so fewer programmers are needed. A team of two seniors and 6 juniors can just be two seniors. As you said, it's mostly breaking down a problem and knowing what's needed, then telling it what components are needed. 'Make me a function that does this and that' I use it all the time to make things I know I can make but it makes it, if it makes it a weird way I modify the prompt to tell it not to make it that way. Good for frameworks for skeleton code and simple hacking things together at sysadmin level and tinkering with things. Not sure about full fledged program projects though. Helps devs get 'unstuck' if they get the writers block. It's absolutely changing the game for marketing, bizdev, and programmers now. Intel layoffs ~20,000, IBM ~24,000. Kind of scary. Smart people with better tools can be a dominant force. So, yeah programmers might be looking for newer skillsets. Operations and Sysadmins I don't forsee ever changing, especially with AI. As you said, will be interesting to look back in five years and see.

piperswe 2y ago
If we're replacing 2 seniors and 6 juniors with just 2 seniors, where are you gonna get more seniors when the 2 retire?
- treyd 2y ago
  That problem isn't in scope. That's a long term issue, we care about returns we can deliver in the next 2 quarters.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  The same way that currently most HR departments only care about people with at least 10 years experience in exactly the same stack the company is using, and more often than not, training is not even part of the picture.
- tivert 2y ago
  > If we're replacing 2 seniors and 6 juniors with just 2 seniors, where are you gonna get more seniors when the 2 retire? Happily drive off a cliff?
  - jedmeyers 2y ago
    With a golden parachute nonetheless.
fragmede 2y ago
try https://github.com/OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter https://github.com/OpenInterpreter/open-interpreter. sysadmining stuff just got a whole lot easier. I've been admining Linux systems for over two decades, but I give LLMs a shot at dealing with some stupid Unix shit so I don't have to. it won't get 100% of the problems, but I can ask it to fix the mess made of, say, my system SSL certificate authorities, and it won't judge me for saying SSL and not TLS and it'll go off and try the first couple of fixes it basically the same way I would, saving me time while I work on something else.
- 2y ago

samsk 2y ago

I'll be afraid when AI takes a bug report with that typical one sentence problem description (like 'Paypal payments are not being processed, we loose 30k a day'), and fixes the problematic one line of code that the AI wrote before.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago

They despise dependencies so much. Half of there life is to get rid of them - declared as "risks" and "depending on some guy down the hall who codes really well" just makes them loose sleep at night. And they put so much effort into this side-quest. No code, low code, everyone codes, simple languages, uml-programing,graph-based programing, so easy my intern can do it, outsourced programming, code by specs, all just to get rid of that dependency that can not be- and it never works out. The complexity was inside the company and its product all along.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago
I guess dependency is powerlessness and thus depending on programming, without the ability to control your destiny, is the equivalent of power thirsty sociopath torture. Makes ones life that one notch more beautiful, going into work..