7 ms·

So the day peaked at 85 GW of load, and they got down to only 130 MW of spare capacity. Just 0.15% from running out. And they never asked for conservation? Is

by MBCook 2y ago

So the day peaked at 85 GW of load, and they got down to only 130 MW of spare capacity. Just 0.15% from running out. And they never asked for conservation? Is it normal to go that close to the edge without trying to cut load?

dylan604 2y ago
I was just chatting with a friend on how we haven't received the conservation emails like we have in previous years. This year has not been as extreme either as the DFW metroplex has not had the extended 100°+ days. We've just had a run of 3 or 4, but we've had 30+ consecutive days in the past.
- justanorherhack 2y ago
  Last year was brutal, this year is great.
  - nvahalik 2y ago
    Indeed. We still had grass at the end of July.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    I'm not in Texas but that matches my local weather as well. Lots of 90s, a few around 100, but not the sustained 100+ for weeks we had last year.
    - humanfromearth9 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - dylan604 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - dylan604 2y ago
    Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me my friend. I would not define this heat as great; more like just this side of deadly.
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      No, this summer is objectively one of the best we've had in a long time, at least in Austin. The fact that we've only had a few days above 105 is a blessing. I mean, it's Texas - it's always blazing hot at the end of August, and that's to be expected. What's really changed over the past 25-50 years is that the plus 100 days have been starting earlier and earlier, and we've been having more of them. Thankfully, that wasn't the case this year.
      - dylan604 2y ago
        Again, that is far from the definition of "great". I would say fortunate to not have those string of triple digits, but man, it's not great at all. 100°+ is still miserable, but it's amazing how different 98° feels from 105°. I get Texas hyperbole, but even my feet are firmly planted in reality to not accept "great" in this meaning. Bless your heart! ;-)
        zdragnar 2y ago
        I think I prefer 100+ degree heat to -40. Where I live we often get both in the same year (though we didn't hit 100 this particular summer). At least with the heat, you aren't worrying that your plumbing might freeze and burst a pipe in your walls if the power goes out.
        reaperman 2y ago
        Everywhere I’ve lived where it actually does get to -40, none of the pipes burst if you lose power for extended periods. First, they’re buried well below the frost line, and secondly, there’s usually an pressurized air inlet nozzle somewhere so you can open a faucet and blow all the water out if you’ll be gone for a long time. Fun fact, -40 is the same in F and C so it’s fine to omit the units for once!
- dayjah 2y ago
  Austin here, we’re enrolled in a conservation plan through Austin Energy whereby they control our smart thermostats (Nest in our case). These “Rush Hour” notices have been firing a lot over the past two weeks; perhaps only two days where we haven’t been asked to conserve somewhere between 3-6 hours a day.
  - WillPostForFood 2y ago
    Are you sure? I just looked and there was a Rush Hour for Friday, Monday, Tuesday, and today. The last one before that was Aug 8. O16 days total this summer, the first being June 13.
- patmorgan23 2y ago
  Last year was an extraordinarily long and hot summer.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    The year before was worse to me, but followed by another one just as bad it just made it feel worse. I don't remember '23 being as humid as '22, but maybe that's just faulty memory shorting out from the humidity???
username135 2y ago
Thats how they edge in Tx
maxmcd 2y ago
The 2 GW of ECRS capacity does include Demand Response resources that are reducing their load to provide the capacity. I imagine the other ERCOT demand response programs were also dispatched.
AtlasBarfed 2y ago
This is a state that should basically be peppered with residential rooftop solar. Of course, there's zero chance of any sort of state governmental policy to help incentivize it in deep red state land. But if recent history has shown anything, I would consider it a primary feature of any home in Texas to be relatively grid independent with its own generating capacity and storage.
- strivingtobe 2y ago
  Texas has a lot of incentives for residential solar. I'm not sure where you live, but in my DFW suburb, my neighborhood _is_ peppered in rooftop solar. https://www.gosolartexas.org/available-incentives https://www.gosolartexas.org/available-incentives A lot of the incentives are from local power companies like Oncor, but one notable state-wide incentive is that solar installations are exempt from property tax by state law. I dunno why people act like Texas is staunchly anti-renewable. TX state politicians have said some goofy stuff about "windmills freezing over", but overall Texans are extremely pro-wind and pro-solar. It's a huge economic driver for a large part of the state, and it's seen as an overall part of Texas's strong energy industry, complimentary to oil rather than as a competitor to it. George Bush and Rick Perry were both Republican governors but both were _very_ pro-renewable and oversaw massive booms in wind energy especially. In 2005 Texas (including Perry at the time) passed a law to invest billions of state dollars into building transmission lines specifically to make it feasible for renewable energy generation in west Texas to bring power to the populated areas in the east, which is attributed to the massive wind boom. Abbot, on the other hand, has sadly not been very pro-renewable, but much of the state still is.
  - Salgat 2y ago
    Here just north of Austin, PEC implemented one of the most regressive solar programs in the country. Their argument in their study was that they make less money off solar since they can't sell as much power.
    - infecto 2y ago
      Regressive in what manner? Historically a lot of solar buy-back programs were incredibly inflated. Residential solar can be great for the resident but is usually not great for the grid. Paying resi. solar producers greater than market rates always felt foolish to me.
asciimov 2y ago
Here in San Antonio (CPS is our sole provider) we get emails asking us to reduce our use during peak hours on high demand days like today. Not sure how well it works, but they send out another email letting us know how we did compared to similarly sized houses in my area. If demand goes over the edge, they will start doing rolling black outs.
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  "A message from CPS Energy" I haven't paid much attention to them. Perhaps they should put a threat level code in the subject line. Green = Go about your day Yellow = Don't use your big appliances or hot water as much Orange = Yellow, plus turn the thermostat to 80 and keep the doors closed Red = Bitcoin mines offline. All buildings shut down ancillary consumption. A/C in common spaces set to 85. Prepare to roll blackouts.
  - mrweasel 2y ago
    > Red = Bitcoin mines offline. We're at a point in time where I can't even tell if this is a joke or not.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      https://www.tpr.org/news/2024-01-03/texan-bitcoin-miners-profit-by-using-less-electricity-advocates-say-all-texans-should-get-the-same-chance https://www.tpr.org/news/2024-01-03/texan-bitcoin-miners-pro... it's a thing.
strivingtobe 2y ago
No. The 130 MW remaining capacity was the amount available "in SCED within 5 minutes", which in super simplified terms means "the amount of energy available quickly and economically". The grid actually had ~4 GW spare capacity (according to the graph) if it was needed, but it wasn't part of SCED.
- MBCook 2y ago
  But if you can't get more in under 5m, then if the demand goes up that much in under 5m you hit the point of load shedding to protect the grid right? The graph showed it increasing fast just before. Is it so unthinkable it could jump again? Or is that they could get more (non-SCED) in time, it would just cost a ton so it's avoided if at all possible?
  - strivingtobe 2y ago
    My understanding is that it's the latter. "in SCED" basically means they have pre-planned availability that is cheap. The "Physical Response Capacity" in that graph is the amount of capacity actually available, but it's not part of SCED. However it doesn't say anything about the timeframe it would be available in. Given that ERCOT didn't call for conservation, I would have to assume it was capacity that was "quickly available, but not cheap" rather than "not quickly available", but I don't know for sure.
    - chardz 2y ago
      Being in SCED just means that the resource bid into the real time energy market (which clears every 5 mins), it does not necessarily mean that the resource is cheap to dispatch. The confusion here might be caused by the differences of the ancillary market (PRC) and the energy market (SCED). Your second paragraph may be answered by this: https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/gridconditions https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/gridconditions. PRC units are available in real time, immediately on request.
esaym 2y ago
Not sure where they are getting all the numbers, but 85GW is no where near the "max": https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/supplyanddemand https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/supplyanddemand
miguelazo 2y ago
If they ask their customers to conserve, they can’t rant about California “running out of electricity because EVs” anymore.
danans 2y ago
> And they never asked for conservation? Uncompensated demand curtailment is such a scam. Just pay people to curtail demand.

by MBCook 2y ago

dylan604 2y ago

I was just chatting with a friend on how we haven't received the conservation emails like we have in previous years. This year has not been as extreme either as the DFW metroplex has not had the extended 100°+ days. We've just had a run of 3 or 4, but we've had 30+ consecutive days in the past.

justanorherhack 2y ago
Last year was brutal, this year is great.
- nvahalik 2y ago
  Indeed. We still had grass at the end of July.
- MBCook 2y ago
  I'm not in Texas but that matches my local weather as well. Lots of 90s, a few around 100, but not the sustained 100+ for weeks we had last year.
  - humanfromearth9 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - dylan604 2y ago
      [flagged]
- dylan604 2y ago
  Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me my friend. I would not define this heat as great; more like just this side of deadly.
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    No, this summer is objectively one of the best we've had in a long time, at least in Austin. The fact that we've only had a few days above 105 is a blessing. I mean, it's Texas - it's always blazing hot at the end of August, and that's to be expected. What's really changed over the past 25-50 years is that the plus 100 days have been starting earlier and earlier, and we've been having more of them. Thankfully, that wasn't the case this year.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      Again, that is far from the definition of "great". I would say fortunate to not have those string of triple digits, but man, it's not great at all. 100°+ is still miserable, but it's amazing how different 98° feels from 105°. I get Texas hyperbole, but even my feet are firmly planted in reality to not accept "great" in this meaning. Bless your heart! ;-)
      - zdragnar 2y ago
        I think I prefer 100+ degree heat to -40. Where I live we often get both in the same year (though we didn't hit 100 this particular summer). At least with the heat, you aren't worrying that your plumbing might freeze and burst a pipe in your walls if the power goes out.
        reaperman 2y ago
        Everywhere I’ve lived where it actually does get to -40, none of the pipes burst if you lose power for extended periods. First, they’re buried well below the frost line, and secondly, there’s usually an pressurized air inlet nozzle somewhere so you can open a faucet and blow all the water out if you’ll be gone for a long time. Fun fact, -40 is the same in F and C so it’s fine to omit the units for once!
dayjah 2y ago
Austin here, we’re enrolled in a conservation plan through Austin Energy whereby they control our smart thermostats (Nest in our case). These “Rush Hour” notices have been firing a lot over the past two weeks; perhaps only two days where we haven’t been asked to conserve somewhere between 3-6 hours a day.
- WillPostForFood 2y ago
  Are you sure? I just looked and there was a Rush Hour for Friday, Monday, Tuesday, and today. The last one before that was Aug 8. O16 days total this summer, the first being June 13.
patmorgan23 2y ago
Last year was an extraordinarily long and hot summer.
- dylan604 2y ago
  The year before was worse to me, but followed by another one just as bad it just made it feel worse. I don't remember '23 being as humid as '22, but maybe that's just faulty memory shorting out from the humidity???

username135 2y ago

Thats how they edge in Tx

maxmcd 2y ago

The 2 GW of ECRS capacity does include Demand Response resources that are reducing their load to provide the capacity. I imagine the other ERCOT demand response programs were also dispatched.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago

This is a state that should basically be peppered with residential rooftop solar. Of course, there's zero chance of any sort of state governmental policy to help incentivize it in deep red state land. But if recent history has shown anything, I would consider it a primary feature of any home in Texas to be relatively grid independent with its own generating capacity and storage.

strivingtobe 2y ago
Texas has a lot of incentives for residential solar. I'm not sure where you live, but in my DFW suburb, my neighborhood _is_ peppered in rooftop solar. https://www.gosolartexas.org/available-incentives https://www.gosolartexas.org/available-incentives A lot of the incentives are from local power companies like Oncor, but one notable state-wide incentive is that solar installations are exempt from property tax by state law. I dunno why people act like Texas is staunchly anti-renewable. TX state politicians have said some goofy stuff about "windmills freezing over", but overall Texans are extremely pro-wind and pro-solar. It's a huge economic driver for a large part of the state, and it's seen as an overall part of Texas's strong energy industry, complimentary to oil rather than as a competitor to it. George Bush and Rick Perry were both Republican governors but both were _very_ pro-renewable and oversaw massive booms in wind energy especially. In 2005 Texas (including Perry at the time) passed a law to invest billions of state dollars into building transmission lines specifically to make it feasible for renewable energy generation in west Texas to bring power to the populated areas in the east, which is attributed to the massive wind boom. Abbot, on the other hand, has sadly not been very pro-renewable, but much of the state still is.
- Salgat 2y ago
  Here just north of Austin, PEC implemented one of the most regressive solar programs in the country. Their argument in their study was that they make less money off solar since they can't sell as much power.
  - infecto 2y ago
    Regressive in what manner? Historically a lot of solar buy-back programs were incredibly inflated. Residential solar can be great for the resident but is usually not great for the grid. Paying resi. solar producers greater than market rates always felt foolish to me.

asciimov 2y ago

Here in San Antonio (CPS is our sole provider) we get emails asking us to reduce our use during peak hours on high demand days like today. Not sure how well it works, but they send out another email letting us know how we did compared to similarly sized houses in my area. If demand goes over the edge, they will start doing rolling black outs.

unethical_ban 2y ago
"A message from CPS Energy" I haven't paid much attention to them. Perhaps they should put a threat level code in the subject line. Green = Go about your day Yellow = Don't use your big appliances or hot water as much Orange = Yellow, plus turn the thermostat to 80 and keep the doors closed Red = Bitcoin mines offline. All buildings shut down ancillary consumption. A/C in common spaces set to 85. Prepare to roll blackouts.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  > Red = Bitcoin mines offline. We're at a point in time where I can't even tell if this is a joke or not.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    https://www.tpr.org/news/2024-01-03/texan-bitcoin-miners-profit-by-using-less-electricity-advocates-say-all-texans-should-get-the-same-chance https://www.tpr.org/news/2024-01-03/texan-bitcoin-miners-pro... it's a thing.

strivingtobe 2y ago

No. The 130 MW remaining capacity was the amount available "in SCED within 5 minutes", which in super simplified terms means "the amount of energy available quickly and economically". The grid actually had ~4 GW spare capacity (according to the graph) if it was needed, but it wasn't part of SCED.

MBCook 2y ago
But if you can't get more in under 5m, then if the demand goes up that much in under 5m you hit the point of load shedding to protect the grid right? The graph showed it increasing fast just before. Is it so unthinkable it could jump again? Or is that they could get more (non-SCED) in time, it would just cost a ton so it's avoided if at all possible?
- strivingtobe 2y ago
  My understanding is that it's the latter. "in SCED" basically means they have pre-planned availability that is cheap. The "Physical Response Capacity" in that graph is the amount of capacity actually available, but it's not part of SCED. However it doesn't say anything about the timeframe it would be available in. Given that ERCOT didn't call for conservation, I would have to assume it was capacity that was "quickly available, but not cheap" rather than "not quickly available", but I don't know for sure.
  - chardz 2y ago
    Being in SCED just means that the resource bid into the real time energy market (which clears every 5 mins), it does not necessarily mean that the resource is cheap to dispatch. The confusion here might be caused by the differences of the ancillary market (PRC) and the energy market (SCED). Your second paragraph may be answered by this: https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/gridconditions https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/gridconditions. PRC units are available in real time, immediately on request.

esaym 2y ago

Not sure where they are getting all the numbers, but 85GW is no where near the "max": https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/supplyanddemand https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/supplyanddemand

miguelazo 2y ago

If they ask their customers to conserve, they can’t rant about California “running out of electricity because EVs” anymore.

danans 2y ago

> And they never asked for conservation? Uncompensated demand curtailment is such a scam. Just pay people to curtail demand.