7 ms·

Tab groups again? I don’t remember when exactly, but like 10 years ago Firefox already had this feature. I was using them happily, organising all my numerous ta

by nokeya 2y ago

Tab groups again? I don’t remember when exactly, but like 10 years ago Firefox already had this feature. I was using them happily, organising all my numerous tabs to a dozen of groups by theme (work, social, movies, etc). But then Mozilla decided: “Nobody is using tab groups, screw it!” and removed them. All groups and tabs were lost. Now history will repeat?

jay_kyburz 2y ago
I never understand the need for tab groups, once you get above 4-5 tabs you are actively working in, whats wrong with bookmarks?
- KingMob 2y ago
  Bookmarks are perceptually longer-term than open tabs, so there may be more reluctance to save to a bookmark. (E.g., if planning a trip to Italy, do you want to bookmark some blogger's food recs for Rome, forever?) But worse is, it relies on recalling the text in the bookmark's title to resurface it. You might not remember the page title, but you can always scan through open tabs.
  - torstenvl 2y ago
    I add a folder to my bookmark bar. All project related tabs get bookmarked there. When I'm done, I either delete the whole folder or file it somewhere. I can also open all in tabs, if I really want to.
  - miah_ 2y ago
    I wrote love the ability to associate a TTL with bookmarks. Let me bookmark for 3 hours or 2 days or forever. Of course the 3 and 2 are user choices. Mostly the way I deal with this now is sharing the tab to another Firefox on a different computer then use it there and decide it's fate.
    - krferriter 2y ago
      This is an interesting idea for a feature, that I think I would like too. I like to save things to maybe look at later and a TTL would manage automatically dropping them from bookmarks in case I never actually want to look at it later.
- proaralyst 2y ago
  Work make me use Chrome, and I have recently converted hard to tab groups. I've found two main uses: one for a collection of reference tabs that I mostly want open or closed together (specific API references that are normally spread out over a few pages); the other is to organise groups of tabs for different projects I'm working on. Both of these make context switching easier as I can quickly hide all of the tabs I'm not currently using, knowing they'll be just as easy to reopen later. In Chrome, tab groups can be saved too, so they give you a bit of the persistence of bookmarks. I'm still a Firefox user where I have a choice, and I'm really excited to hear they're working on first-class tab groups
- slightwinder 2y ago
  Bookmarks suck. They are slow and cumbersome to manage, especially when it's many related urls. And for working with them, I need to open them as a tab anyway, so why not stay there from the beginning?
- cxr 2y ago
  I use Firefox's existing native support for tab groups that it's had since pre-1.0. They're called windows.
  - artificialLimbs 2y ago
    Cool until you restart your machine.
    - cxr 2y ago
      Do you mean "… and then it's not very cool anymore"? And if so, then why not?
      - jerbear4328 2y ago
        I think they meant that you lose your windows after a reboot, because Firefox only restores one window, compared to all of your groups.
        lionelw 2y ago
        Firefox restores all windows.
        jay_kyburz 2y ago
        If you close your windows in the wrong order, you will lose your tabs and pinned tabs. Example: Have a primary window with you email, calendar and important sites pinned. Then open another window and open a few tabs. Then at the end of the day, close your primary window first, then discover you still have the secondary window open and close it as well. When you restart Firefox you will get the secondary window and your "primary" window will be lost with all your pinned tabs. I actually went down a rabbit hole of trying to log it as a bug, but the behavior is by design apparently.
        niutech 2y ago
- PrototypeNM1 2y ago
  Think of it like memory hierarchies. Bookmarks are long term storage, tabs are registers. Tab groups fall somewhere in the middle, easy to reengage with and easy to put out of focus.
- superkuh 2y ago
  Bookmarks don't have tab history.
dao- 2y ago
I remember, I was around back then. :) Panorama was in some ways ahead of its time. The UI was nice visually but also somewhat heavy handed / not very beginner friendly to say the least, which contributed to it being used only by a relatively small share of our user base. We're cautious about not repeating history. We're implementing tab groups from scratch and directly in the tab bar. Our Firefox View feature (Tools > Firefox View) may later get a more visual surface for managing groups.
- nokeya 2y ago
  It was used by advanced users. And what advanced users do? Disable telemetry;) So, I suppose the share was a little bigger but not that much.
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    Maybe instead of ubiquitous stupidity-tqxax telemetry we could have some neo-Nielsen families and get to pick a roughly representative sample out of voluntary, compensated users. A trusted third party contracts the victims and agregates the data. Don't ask me who regulates or pays though.
    - jackstraw14 2y ago
      > A trusted third party And why wouldn't it be Nielsen :) I remember when they sent me cash in the mail as a kid, fun times.
      - cbsks 2y ago
        They still do that. Just a few weeks ago my daughter filled out their survey and got $5!
        jackstraw14 2y ago
        That's so cool, mine was about 30 years ago. I had no idea they were still doing this!
Vinnl 2y ago
I think you're referring to Panorama View [1], introduced in Firefox 4 (2010). I think there are still extensions that replicate the experience [2]. There are many things different now that might make it work better this time. If not just that it's 14 years later, different UI, and the pattern being familiar from other browsers, might make a difference too. But no guarantees, of course. (Note: I don't work on Tab Groups.) [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110613070035/http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/designing-tab-candy/ https://web.archive.org/web/20110613070035/http://www.azaras... [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/ https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/ is widely used, but I'm not sure if it does the overview. Other extensions do.
- capitainenemo 2y ago
  There's also https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1509350 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1509350 filed in 2018 for restoring it, now duped against this official bug... https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1907090 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1907090
- cxr 2y ago
  Panorama from Firefox 4. Also called Tab Groups.

by nokeya 2y ago

jay_kyburz 2y ago

I never understand the need for tab groups, once you get above 4-5 tabs you are actively working in, whats wrong with bookmarks?

KingMob 2y ago
Bookmarks are perceptually longer-term than open tabs, so there may be more reluctance to save to a bookmark. (E.g., if planning a trip to Italy, do you want to bookmark some blogger's food recs for Rome, forever?) But worse is, it relies on recalling the text in the bookmark's title to resurface it. You might not remember the page title, but you can always scan through open tabs.
- torstenvl 2y ago
  I add a folder to my bookmark bar. All project related tabs get bookmarked there. When I'm done, I either delete the whole folder or file it somewhere. I can also open all in tabs, if I really want to.
- miah_ 2y ago
  I wrote love the ability to associate a TTL with bookmarks. Let me bookmark for 3 hours or 2 days or forever. Of course the 3 and 2 are user choices. Mostly the way I deal with this now is sharing the tab to another Firefox on a different computer then use it there and decide it's fate.
  - krferriter 2y ago
    This is an interesting idea for a feature, that I think I would like too. I like to save things to maybe look at later and a TTL would manage automatically dropping them from bookmarks in case I never actually want to look at it later.
proaralyst 2y ago
Work make me use Chrome, and I have recently converted hard to tab groups. I've found two main uses: one for a collection of reference tabs that I mostly want open or closed together (specific API references that are normally spread out over a few pages); the other is to organise groups of tabs for different projects I'm working on. Both of these make context switching easier as I can quickly hide all of the tabs I'm not currently using, knowing they'll be just as easy to reopen later. In Chrome, tab groups can be saved too, so they give you a bit of the persistence of bookmarks. I'm still a Firefox user where I have a choice, and I'm really excited to hear they're working on first-class tab groups
slightwinder 2y ago
Bookmarks suck. They are slow and cumbersome to manage, especially when it's many related urls. And for working with them, I need to open them as a tab anyway, so why not stay there from the beginning?
cxr 2y ago
I use Firefox's existing native support for tab groups that it's had since pre-1.0. They're called windows.
- artificialLimbs 2y ago
  Cool until you restart your machine.
  - cxr 2y ago
    Do you mean "… and then it's not very cool anymore"? And if so, then why not?
    - jerbear4328 2y ago
      I think they meant that you lose your windows after a reboot, because Firefox only restores one window, compared to all of your groups.
      - lionelw 2y ago
        Firefox restores all windows.
        jay_kyburz 2y ago
        If you close your windows in the wrong order, you will lose your tabs and pinned tabs. Example: Have a primary window with you email, calendar and important sites pinned. Then open another window and open a few tabs. Then at the end of the day, close your primary window first, then discover you still have the secondary window open and close it as well. When you restart Firefox you will get the secondary window and your "primary" window will be lost with all your pinned tabs. I actually went down a rabbit hole of trying to log it as a bug, but the behavior is by design apparently.
        niutech 2y ago
PrototypeNM1 2y ago
Think of it like memory hierarchies. Bookmarks are long term storage, tabs are registers. Tab groups fall somewhere in the middle, easy to reengage with and easy to put out of focus.
superkuh 2y ago
Bookmarks don't have tab history.

dao- 2y ago

I remember, I was around back then. :) Panorama was in some ways ahead of its time. The UI was nice visually but also somewhat heavy handed / not very beginner friendly to say the least, which contributed to it being used only by a relatively small share of our user base. We're cautious about not repeating history. We're implementing tab groups from scratch and directly in the tab bar. Our Firefox View feature (Tools > Firefox View) may later get a more visual surface for managing groups.

nokeya 2y ago
It was used by advanced users. And what advanced users do? Disable telemetry;) So, I suppose the share was a little bigger but not that much.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  Maybe instead of ubiquitous stupidity-tqxax telemetry we could have some neo-Nielsen families and get to pick a roughly representative sample out of voluntary, compensated users. A trusted third party contracts the victims and agregates the data. Don't ask me who regulates or pays though.
  - jackstraw14 2y ago
    > A trusted third party And why wouldn't it be Nielsen :) I remember when they sent me cash in the mail as a kid, fun times.
    - cbsks 2y ago
      They still do that. Just a few weeks ago my daughter filled out their survey and got $5!
      - jackstraw14 2y ago
        That's so cool, mine was about 30 years ago. I had no idea they were still doing this!

Vinnl 2y ago

I think you're referring to Panorama View [1], introduced in Firefox 4 (2010). I think there are still extensions that replicate the experience [2]. There are many things different now that might make it work better this time. If not just that it's 14 years later, different UI, and the pattern being familiar from other browsers, might make a difference too. But no guarantees, of course. (Note: I don't work on Tab Groups.) [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110613070035/http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/designing-tab-candy/ https://web.archive.org/web/20110613070035/http://www.azaras... [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/ https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/ is widely used, but I'm not sure if it does the overview. Other extensions do.

capitainenemo 2y ago
There's also https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1509350 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1509350 filed in 2018 for restoring it, now duped against this official bug... https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1907090 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1907090
cxr 2y ago
Panorama from Firefox 4. Also called Tab Groups.