4 ms·

Man I hear that so much on HN. I'd never been to Europe until 2021, and I met so many happy, beautiful, productive people who enjoyed healthy food, great booze,

Man I hear that so much on HN. I'd never been to Europe until 2021, and I met so many happy, beautiful, productive people who enjoyed healthy food, great booze, love, and just LIFE compared to the U.S. Here on the Colorado front range it's all scrambling to keep an edge, trying not to look homeless people in the eye, taking as much as you can, working killer hours for (lots of) cash that we then blow on stupid plastic shit .... Sure many of the people I talked with complained about the government stepping on its own toes to try to increase tourism or provide grants for building new things, etc., but I also saw women walking alone in the middle of capital cities at midnight because it was perfectly safe to do so. Granted this is just one small country in Europe but if that's what socialism, generational stagnation, and people checking checkboxes looks like then sign me up. That said ... > Why not just educate people into investing better instead? Yes! This along with critical thinking about social media, lessons on how to fill out your taxes, fostering an interest in local politics over national politics, and maybe America can get its head out of its ass and actually produce happiness instead of just money.

oceanplexian 2y ago
As they say, the grass is always greener. I’m lucky to have worked with enough colleagues who have immigrated from Europe to realize that the situation there is far from perfect. For example they are making 30-50% the pay of a software engineer in California or New York, and that’s in a “rich” european country like Germany or France. The chance of owning a house is almost impossible. They don’t have access to open spaces even remotely like Colorado. Obviously what you prefer will be up to you, but the US has a lot more options in terms of the lifestyle you can choose from.
- anovikov 2y ago
  That. And more generally, there's almost no chance to change your life for the better. Rich people there are those who became rich before this system was put in place (before WWII that is, sometimes in the XIX century or before), and then just pass the wealth down the generations. Or those who immigrated having earned (or stolen) the wealth abroad. For others, there's really no hope of breaking out of endless toil for mediocre wage. And yes, on the flip side, it's really hard to fall through the cracks completely, but that's what it is: to prevent people from losing, we also need to prevent them from winning - you can't have one without the other. And, collectively, they just stagnate. There's no progress at all in any side of life, while America still enjoys relatively quick - even if very unevenly distributed - economic growth.
  - troyvit 2y ago
    Why be rich when you can be comfortable? I know many Europeans (and immigrants to Europe) who make plenty of advancement in their careers. I hear you about house ownership though.
  - moi2388 2y ago
    I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. Wages are lower, yes, but if I compare myself with my friends from the USA I have more disposable income corrected for purchasing power. I agree that working as en employee you will never get ahead. Which is why you should start your own company or invest if this is something you desire. Also Europe might fall behind ik economic growth, there is a lot of innovation coming from Europe, exactly because of stricter governmental regulation regarding green enerfy, recycling, consumer rights ef cetera
- troyvit 2y ago
  I had a starkly different experience. The Alps are different than the Rockies in terms of isolation but definitely no less beautiful. And taking a bus or train to a trek vs fighting up I-70 was a dream. I lived part time in New York and have plenty of colleagues on both coasts and saw how that pay was eaten up by massive rent and house payments and food costs. Not saying Europe is perfect but living in Colorado, where I was born, is like watching a best friend become a whore. Such beauty and light consumed by the hunger of the people using it.

oceanplexian 2y ago

As they say, the grass is always greener. I’m lucky to have worked with enough colleagues who have immigrated from Europe to realize that the situation there is far from perfect. For example they are making 30-50% the pay of a software engineer in California or New York, and that’s in a “rich” european country like Germany or France. The chance of owning a house is almost impossible. They don’t have access to open spaces even remotely like Colorado. Obviously what you prefer will be up to you, but the US has a lot more options in terms of the lifestyle you can choose from.

anovikov 2y ago
That. And more generally, there's almost no chance to change your life for the better. Rich people there are those who became rich before this system was put in place (before WWII that is, sometimes in the XIX century or before), and then just pass the wealth down the generations. Or those who immigrated having earned (or stolen) the wealth abroad. For others, there's really no hope of breaking out of endless toil for mediocre wage. And yes, on the flip side, it's really hard to fall through the cracks completely, but that's what it is: to prevent people from losing, we also need to prevent them from winning - you can't have one without the other. And, collectively, they just stagnate. There's no progress at all in any side of life, while America still enjoys relatively quick - even if very unevenly distributed - economic growth.
- troyvit 2y ago
  Why be rich when you can be comfortable? I know many Europeans (and immigrants to Europe) who make plenty of advancement in their careers. I hear you about house ownership though.
- moi2388 2y ago
  I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. Wages are lower, yes, but if I compare myself with my friends from the USA I have more disposable income corrected for purchasing power. I agree that working as en employee you will never get ahead. Which is why you should start your own company or invest if this is something you desire. Also Europe might fall behind ik economic growth, there is a lot of innovation coming from Europe, exactly because of stricter governmental regulation regarding green enerfy, recycling, consumer rights ef cetera
troyvit 2y ago
I had a starkly different experience. The Alps are different than the Rockies in terms of isolation but definitely no less beautiful. And taking a bus or train to a trek vs fighting up I-70 was a dream. I lived part time in New York and have plenty of colleagues on both coasts and saw how that pay was eaten up by massive rent and house payments and food costs. Not saying Europe is perfect but living in Colorado, where I was born, is like watching a best friend become a whore. Such beauty and light consumed by the hunger of the people using it.