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I mentioned this in another comment, but the whole reason the archive is able to be optimistic is partially because they offer the undo via toast. Otherwise its

I mentioned this in another comment, but the whole reason the archive is able to be optimistic is partially because they offer the undo via toast. Otherwise its likely they would add an 'are you sure' plus a loading-state when doing these "semi-destructive" actions.

ryandrake 2y ago
You can offer Undo via things other than toasts, though. In fact, I wish more software offered Undo--the Undo feature has kind of gone out of fashion since the early 2000s. You should be able to Undo anything (and follow the Undo chain back through many past actions). We somehow lost this ability from software.
- JamesSwift 2y ago
  For sure you can, but a toast is a tool in the toolbox. When it makes sense to use it, it definitely justifies its existence as a tool to keep around.
- Maxion 2y ago
  Undo's (and especially re-do) are quite hard and resource intensive to code, especially for web apps that can be simultaneously accessed via multiple devices. E.g. you can take action A on your laptop, followed by action B on your phone. Undoing action A may not be easily possible if it was followed by action B. To make that work properly you need to activel sync states between all the users devices using e.g. websocket or what-have-you. Handling edge cases becomes quite the nightmare, e.g. phone has poor connectivity. Only the big guys would have budget to do these sort of things (And make them work well).
abirch 2y ago
I've accidently archived something only to realize it when the toast pops up. I'm grateful for the toast instead of having the 'are you sure' like you mentioned. It's a nice compromise.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Undo via ephemeral toast seems like a bad idea also. I guess if the toast hanged around until the next toast it might make sense?
- JamesSwift 2y ago
  Theres an implicit assumption that the actions being offered an “undo” are semi-important/permanent. In other words, if you delete an email and it goes to the trash folder: good use of toast + undo If you empty the trash, and there is nowhere the user can go to unempty it: bad use of toast + undo Its also useful as a sleight of hand eg when cancelling an action you havent yet taken (which actually is generally what a toast + undo actually is). The best example of this being toast + undo for an email send
  - Grustaf 2y ago
    Putting an email in trash seems like exactly the kind of action that does _not_ need a toast, since it's easy and obvious to undo.

ryandrake 2y ago

You can offer Undo via things other than toasts, though. In fact, I wish more software offered Undo--the Undo feature has kind of gone out of fashion since the early 2000s. You should be able to Undo anything (and follow the Undo chain back through many past actions). We somehow lost this ability from software.

JamesSwift 2y ago
For sure you can, but a toast is a tool in the toolbox. When it makes sense to use it, it definitely justifies its existence as a tool to keep around.
Maxion 2y ago
Undo's (and especially re-do) are quite hard and resource intensive to code, especially for web apps that can be simultaneously accessed via multiple devices. E.g. you can take action A on your laptop, followed by action B on your phone. Undoing action A may not be easily possible if it was followed by action B. To make that work properly you need to activel sync states between all the users devices using e.g. websocket or what-have-you. Handling edge cases becomes quite the nightmare, e.g. phone has poor connectivity. Only the big guys would have budget to do these sort of things (And make them work well).

abirch 2y ago

I've accidently archived something only to realize it when the toast pops up. I'm grateful for the toast instead of having the 'are you sure' like you mentioned. It's a nice compromise.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

Undo via ephemeral toast seems like a bad idea also. I guess if the toast hanged around until the next toast it might make sense?

JamesSwift 2y ago
Theres an implicit assumption that the actions being offered an “undo” are semi-important/permanent. In other words, if you delete an email and it goes to the trash folder: good use of toast + undo If you empty the trash, and there is nowhere the user can go to unempty it: bad use of toast + undo Its also useful as a sleight of hand eg when cancelling an action you havent yet taken (which actually is generally what a toast + undo actually is). The best example of this being toast + undo for an email send
- Grustaf 2y ago
  Putting an email in trash seems like exactly the kind of action that does _not_ need a toast, since it's easy and obvious to undo.