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This is the embodiment of the problem of macOS. A $29 app for something that Linux does for free. To be clear, this looks like a neat app, but I'll stick with L

This is the embodiment of the problem of macOS. A $29 app for something that Linux does for free. To be clear, this looks like a neat app, but I'll stick with Linux.

lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
"Free," provided you can spend a month trying to get it to work. Linux is only free if you don't value your time.
- LorenDB 2y ago
  But it doesn't take a month. This feature (or something very similar to it) is bundled out of the box with KDE Plasma.
  - daneel_w 2y ago
    As is it in OSX/macOS, since the mid 2000s. Press CTRL+up to see all windows on your current space/desktop. Press CTRL+down to see all of windows of the current application. Press CMD+left/right to cycle through all windows of the current application.
- pawelduda 2y ago
  Maybe it used to be like this in the past, but not anymore. Yesterday I had to open up a huge ass PC case and disconnect GPU to be able to physically remove 2nd SSD drive, so that Windows 11 could perform a clean install. Simple setup on a modern PC. That's the only solution that worked - found it on reddit as the most upvoted answer. Never had to remove any hardware in order to install Linux. Ofc it's just a stupid anecdote but that's all the quote you posted is based on.
  - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
    Yes, it still is like that. In some cases, it's as bad as it's ever been.
callumgare 2y ago
I don’t think some asking for some money for the time and effort they put in to build an app is such a bad thing.
- LorenDB 2y ago
  No, it's not. The problem is that for many people, getting a good experience on macOS requires buying various apps like this one to fix up the OS.
  - daneel_w 2y ago
    Can't agree. You should revisit macOS. It sounds like you haven't tried it in, well, long over a decade.
  - LudwigNagasena 2y ago
    I can spend money to get good experience on MacOS. I have no idea how to get good experience on Linux.
  - TillE 2y ago
    macOS is built primarily for the probably ~95% of users who are on a laptop, and it works just great there.
  - vehemenz 2y ago
    The native experience is pretty good. Most of the complaints I hear are from people coming from other operating systems and have different expectations, which is understandable, but that isn't always the fault of the operating system. That said, Sequoia includes native window snapping and a password manager. Apple is slowly addressing the "problem."
hysan 2y ago
Not saying one OS is better than the other, but couldn’t you say the reverse for other DE features? Except instead of money, it’s time. For example, monitor independent dynamic workspaces with 1:1 touch gesture controls.
tpmoney 2y ago
And then when Apple adds it to the existing OS functionality demoed at the beginning of the video, we can have a different embodiment of "the problem of macOS", and look forward to articles about how Apple is "sherlocking" small developers again. More seriously I don't understand what the problem is here. Is the problem That some functionality or another wasn't built into the OS? Most things "linux" does aren't built into "linux" or even "gnu/linux", they're a distribution composed of both some combination of linux kernel, base tooling apps and then improved UX apps on top of that, all of which will vary greatly in what functionality they provide out of the box. What makes this particular app and functionality a critical piece that an OS should provide? Is the problem that the developer is charging money for their work? Why is that a problem? For the life of me I don't understand why software developers seem so hellbent on devaluing their own work. Why is it outrageous to spend $30 for something like this if the built in window management functionality doesn't suit you? If you're broke, or live somewhere where $30 USD is a lot of money, sure you might be annoyed that you either need to code this up yourself, or dig for someone offering a free replacement, but if you're not either of those, $30 is a hair over dinner for 2 at a fast food restaurant these days. It's (likely less than) a tank of gas. It is 1 hour of work at the median US developer salary of $79k / year. If you could code something like this up in less than an hour, maybe it's not worth your time, but if you can't, it's a screaming deal if this is something you need. Software is worth something, human labor goes into it, and those humans need to eat and pay their bills. Maybe big corporations with deep pockets and huge recurring revenue streams have warped our views a bit with the amount of software they can give away for free. Certainly the amount of benefit we have all received from countless people volunteering their time away at various open source project has spoiled us some. But those people can only volunteer their time because somewhere, someone else is paying them for other parts of their time. If we the developers constantly treat our labor as if it has no value, why would we expect anyone else to treat it otherwise?
- szastamasta 2y ago
  I just wanted to say that I love you man. We are so crazy as devs. We’re outraged when someone wants few dollars for their app. Especially when it’s a one guy trying to make a living from building small apps like this. In the meantime we dream about opening a 1 person software shop selling small apps and getting out of corp work. This is total madness.
daneel_w 2y ago
Isn't that an absurd stretch? It's not as if the "embodiment" of one's choice between Linux vs macOS falls entirely upon these mere functions contained in this one app... Additionally, almost everything this $29 app does are things that macOS has provided out of the box for close to 20 years already, before Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon and various compositors were inspired. You can already set up hotkeys to show all windows on the current space you're viewing, and to cycle through all windows of the currently focused application, and more.
Razengan 2y ago
macOS also does some things for free that you need to, or had to, pay for on other OSes. The quick screen recording for example. Some of the complaints of the app's author are also not accurate: > "Expose" does not work well when you have more than 3 windows on a space. I have "Hot Corners" set to "Mission Control" and "Application Windows", and when I fling the mouse to that corner, I can see 6 windows of the browser just fine right now, and I have grouping enabled in Mission Control, showing 8 windows. If I scroll up on a window group, the windows spread out. All in all, it's not that bad out of the box as the author makes it out to be, and definitely not bad enough to make me want to suffer all the other jank of Linux or Windows :)
muzani 2y ago
For the longest period of time, I avoided Mac because literally this. Windows and Linux do it great, and for free. But eventually the M1 won me over and I spent a while searching for window management tools.

This is the embodiment of the problem of macOS. A $29 app for something that Linux does for free. To be clear, this looks like a neat app, but I'll stick with Linux.

lylejantzi3rd 2y ago

"Free," provided you can spend a month trying to get it to work. Linux is only free if you don't value your time.

LorenDB 2y ago
But it doesn't take a month. This feature (or something very similar to it) is bundled out of the box with KDE Plasma.
- daneel_w 2y ago
  As is it in OSX/macOS, since the mid 2000s. Press CTRL+up to see all windows on your current space/desktop. Press CTRL+down to see all of windows of the current application. Press CMD+left/right to cycle through all windows of the current application.
pawelduda 2y ago
Maybe it used to be like this in the past, but not anymore. Yesterday I had to open up a huge ass PC case and disconnect GPU to be able to physically remove 2nd SSD drive, so that Windows 11 could perform a clean install. Simple setup on a modern PC. That's the only solution that worked - found it on reddit as the most upvoted answer. Never had to remove any hardware in order to install Linux. Ofc it's just a stupid anecdote but that's all the quote you posted is based on.
- lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
  Yes, it still is like that. In some cases, it's as bad as it's ever been.

callumgare 2y ago

I don’t think some asking for some money for the time and effort they put in to build an app is such a bad thing.

LorenDB 2y ago
No, it's not. The problem is that for many people, getting a good experience on macOS requires buying various apps like this one to fix up the OS.
- daneel_w 2y ago
  Can't agree. You should revisit macOS. It sounds like you haven't tried it in, well, long over a decade.
- LudwigNagasena 2y ago
  I can spend money to get good experience on MacOS. I have no idea how to get good experience on Linux.
- TillE 2y ago
  macOS is built primarily for the probably ~95% of users who are on a laptop, and it works just great there.
- vehemenz 2y ago
  The native experience is pretty good. Most of the complaints I hear are from people coming from other operating systems and have different expectations, which is understandable, but that isn't always the fault of the operating system. That said, Sequoia includes native window snapping and a password manager. Apple is slowly addressing the "problem."

hysan 2y ago

Not saying one OS is better than the other, but couldn’t you say the reverse for other DE features? Except instead of money, it’s time. For example, monitor independent dynamic workspaces with 1:1 touch gesture controls.

tpmoney 2y ago

And then when Apple adds it to the existing OS functionality demoed at the beginning of the video, we can have a different embodiment of "the problem of macOS", and look forward to articles about how Apple is "sherlocking" small developers again. More seriously I don't understand what the problem is here. Is the problem That some functionality or another wasn't built into the OS? Most things "linux" does aren't built into "linux" or even "gnu/linux", they're a distribution composed of both some combination of linux kernel, base tooling apps and then improved UX apps on top of that, all of which will vary greatly in what functionality they provide out of the box. What makes this particular app and functionality a critical piece that an OS should provide? Is the problem that the developer is charging money for their work? Why is that a problem? For the life of me I don't understand why software developers seem so hellbent on devaluing their own work. Why is it outrageous to spend $30 for something like this if the built in window management functionality doesn't suit you? If you're broke, or live somewhere where $30 USD is a lot of money, sure you might be annoyed that you either need to code this up yourself, or dig for someone offering a free replacement, but if you're not either of those, $30 is a hair over dinner for 2 at a fast food restaurant these days. It's (likely less than) a tank of gas. It is 1 hour of work at the median US developer salary of $79k / year. If you could code something like this up in less than an hour, maybe it's not worth your time, but if you can't, it's a screaming deal if this is something you need. Software is worth something, human labor goes into it, and those humans need to eat and pay their bills. Maybe big corporations with deep pockets and huge recurring revenue streams have warped our views a bit with the amount of software they can give away for free. Certainly the amount of benefit we have all received from countless people volunteering their time away at various open source project has spoiled us some. But those people can only volunteer their time because somewhere, someone else is paying them for other parts of their time. If we the developers constantly treat our labor as if it has no value, why would we expect anyone else to treat it otherwise?

szastamasta 2y ago
I just wanted to say that I love you man. We are so crazy as devs. We’re outraged when someone wants few dollars for their app. Especially when it’s a one guy trying to make a living from building small apps like this. In the meantime we dream about opening a 1 person software shop selling small apps and getting out of corp work. This is total madness.

daneel_w 2y ago

Isn't that an absurd stretch? It's not as if the "embodiment" of one's choice between Linux vs macOS falls entirely upon these mere functions contained in this one app... Additionally, almost everything this $29 app does are things that macOS has provided out of the box for close to 20 years already, before Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon and various compositors were inspired. You can already set up hotkeys to show all windows on the current space you're viewing, and to cycle through all windows of the currently focused application, and more.

Razengan 2y ago

macOS also does some things for free that you need to, or had to, pay for on other OSes. The quick screen recording for example. Some of the complaints of the app's author are also not accurate: > "Expose" does not work well when you have more than 3 windows on a space. I have "Hot Corners" set to "Mission Control" and "Application Windows", and when I fling the mouse to that corner, I can see 6 windows of the browser just fine right now, and I have grouping enabled in Mission Control, showing 8 windows. If I scroll up on a window group, the windows spread out. All in all, it's not that bad out of the box as the author makes it out to be, and definitely not bad enough to make me want to suffer all the other jank of Linux or Windows :)

muzani 2y ago

For the longest period of time, I avoided Mac because literally this. Windows and Linux do it great, and for free. But eventually the M1 won me over and I spent a while searching for window management tools.