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> ...he met a doctor who mentioned a Halloween mask made from human flesh ... Ed Gein, the killer who converted corpses into lampshades ... Charles Whitman clim

> ...he met a doctor who mentioned a Halloween mask made from human flesh ... Ed Gein, the killer who converted corpses into lampshades ... Charles Whitman climbed to the top of the clock tower and murdered passersby with a hunting rifle ... was rattled by the image of his mother having a lung removed. As I get older I have become increasingly unaccepting of another's art borne of pain. I allow that a lot of very good art does in fact come from pain of shyness, pain of abandonment, rejection ... unrequited love. But expressing that pain doesn't have to be a cruel expression. I would say, just my opinion, if you haven't seen "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre", don't bother. I am still unable to find something redeeming from the film (despite the author's suggesting otherwise). I think instead it remains as a historical reference to the changes in "Hollywood" in the 1970's when drive-ins provided an outlet for underground directors making budget films that were outrageous in their depiction of depravity, etc. Scrub through it in 5 minutes or so and you'll get the idea without having to suffer the full effect of immersion.

adamtaylor_13 2y ago
Yeah the older I get, the more I realize just now depraved humans can be. I don’t take any joy watching fictional depictions of it, when I can easily go read “Machete Season”, and experience the horror that actually took place. More often it’s a better use of my time to find and appreciate the beauty in life.
- kaycey2022 2y ago
  I also feel the same. I guess this is why I like supernatural and cosmic horror more than the realistic variety.
davidw 2y ago
That's a great way of expressing it. I read the newspapers every day, and if you stop and consider what some other person or family is going through because of what's being reported, I don't know, I find there's pain aplenty there without needing to get more from 'entertainment' like movies or books.
- codr7 2y ago
  Careful what you feed your brain, there are a lot of amazing things happening out there that they aren't writing about. It's basically 100% fear at this point, just different flavors. Because it works, you just have to keep raising the volume faster than people get numb/bored.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Don't need painful art because there is enough pain in real life? "There's pain aplenty there without needing to get more from 'entertainment'" So no Diary of Anne Frank? no 'Night' by Wiesel, Etc... Etc...... Sometimes art is also a cautionary tale of what could happen again. Maybe Texas Chainsaw Massacre is also in that thrust, a cautionary tale of society collapse.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    I read "The Diary of a Young Girl" but not as entertainment. To be sure we should be aware of the real horrors in the world — we should not be naive about these things as they will likely happen again and we might more quickly recognize them as they approach.
    - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
      The original post objecting to this article, expressed the point that 'art' based on pain is not needed? worthy? should sugar coat it? It used the word 'art'. Then later post someone said 'entertainment'. This really splits hairs over what is 'art' which can be painful, versus 'entertainment' which should just be mindless marvel movies. One mans art, and all that.
  - davidw 2y ago
    Anne Frank was a real person with a real story. It's not fiction. I think there is enough of that kind of anguish in the real world without inventing it. I'll happily read essays or opinion pieces about bad things that can happen. I just don't like things like, say, Romeo and Juliet.
nkrisc 2y ago
As I got older, I realized the supernatural wasn’t scary. Horror movies became boring. Every ghost movie made me roll my eyes in boredom. What became scary was the realization that the real monsters live among us. I also lost all desire to see people being cruel to other people in movies when I could see the same thing on the news.
- Blackthorn 2y ago
  Isn't that the entire point of Scooby Doo (a television show for children)?
  - nkrisc 2y ago
    That is definitely my interpretation of it. I don’t know enough about it to know of that was the intent or not, but sure seems like it was.
slibhb 2y ago
Strong disagree about the movie. Today it comes across as an art house horror movie. Not particularly gory compared to modern gross-out slasher films (which I rarely watch or like). It's okay to dislike horror movies. But to me, as I watch more movies, I care less about genre. Romance, horror, thriller, whatever
- interludead 2y ago
  How time and context can shift our view of a film
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  It's not the gore (or relative lack of it despite its reputation?) that I disagree with, it's the depravity. Depravity and gore are orthogonal (although, of course, often along for the ride with one another). I'm certain humans are capable of really depraved stuff in the real world, I just don't want to "capture it", watch it. As I said, I feel more strongly this way as I get older (for whatever reason).
  - aidenn0 2y ago
    w.r.t. depravity vs gore: I remember in a director's commentary for Fight Club there was a scene where Ed Norton is on top of someone and punching their face repeatedly, to the point where the character is later shown as disfigured. They originally shot it from above, but it was deemed too gory, so they refilmed it as a view from below where all you see is Norton's face as he is punching and small amounts of blood spatter up onto him (this is the version that is in the final cut). The director's opinion was that the original was definitely more gory, but the final version was far more disturbing.
  - patcon 2y ago
    I think I hear what you're saying. I have started to think of "depravity" (as you call it) as the "body horror" of a collectivist body politic. It takes the form of an agent of our collective, like some social gangrene, participating in a grotesque destruction of itself, the social fabric that binds us. Or alternatively, of the whole human super-organism turning on itself, in the case of disaster or zombie apocalypse movies where ppl riot and turn on one another in conflict. In the real world, though not always, we're often better than the grotesque versions of ourselves we are forced to watch. Maybe you're becoming more of a collectivist as you age, and you have less patience for the seeming distortion that is part of the experience?
benrutter 2y ago
I'm interested in whether you've seen like Hitchcock's Psycho, which is probably a lot less shocking in the way of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and a lot more often considered a "classic movie" but similarly based on the horrific acts of Ed Gein. If you have, did you feel the same way? If not, what was different about them for you?
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  I saw "Psycho" probably over four decades ago. I think I came to it from its reputation — a terrifying film for its time, Hitchcock, apparently a scary shower scene... I would not have judged it when I was that age as to whether it was "self-actualizing art" or not (whatever that means). My only recollection was that I found the ending shocking and unexpected. Learning about it afterwards, I see how there were interesting aspects of "Psycho", particularly for its time, that went over my head when I was young: that the "protagonist" at the start of the film stole money and so should not have been sympathetic, that they switched protagonists half-way through.... It was a departure for sure for Hollywood. I have been working through the "1001 Films to See Before You Die" for a few years now and so have come upon films like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" at an age now where I seem to have lost my patience for depictions of cruelty. I liked "A Clockwork Orange" when I was younger, like it less now. Another example, I had heard about "Pink Flamingos" from its reputation but only saw it recently due to its being on "1001 Films". Hard pass on that film too (although I like some of John Waters later films).
  - slothtrop 2y ago
    At least ACO has some redeeming qualities, like exploring the human condition, the nature of good vs evil, etc.
  - dayjah 2y ago
    A Clockwork Orange is a really great example of how ultra-violence in film doesn’t age well. In the past I could watch the events in the rich folks’ home and understand the actions the Droogs took were bad, thus they deserved their respective punishments. I felt able to discuss their punishments and whether it was okay for the state to enact violence in response to violent offenders. But now… that scene absolutely horrifies me,- the sheer wanton violence of it is just too much and as such I’ve stopped watching the film entirely. All that has changed in that time, I think, is that I’ve grown older (approx. 20 years). Presumably in that time I’ve better learned about the long term impact of violence. Perhaps I’ve become more empathetic as I’ve matured. Either way, it culminates in no longer being able to recommend A Clockwork Orange as a “must watch”. (I’m being sensitive around potential triggers in my description of the scene).
spywaregorilla 2y ago
Strongly disagree. Horror is the best genre for interesting artistic conversations. What are we afraid of? Should we be afraid of it? How do we overcome it? These are great questions that are easier to coexist with fun action sequences without distracting from the movie's purpose. Texas Chainsaw is a great film. It explores an uncommon american sociological fear.
- RajT88 2y ago
  I get your point, and whether I agree or not is besides the point. I would suggest that the best place for interesting artistic conversations is lower budget films, which are often horror films (but any lower budget film is going to have lower expectations, and thus be less risk averse, and more creatively free).
spacechild1 2y ago
To me it's the overall atmosphere, the cinematography, the sound design and the mix between gruesome horror and grotesque comedy that make "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" a truely outstanding movie. As others have mentioned, there is surprisingly little graphical violence, yet it manages to maintain an unrelenting atmosphere of madness and terror.
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ElevenLathe 2y ago
If you are a fan of movies on almost any level, you'll want to see Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I know this is all somewhat subjective, but many many people agree that it's a literal masterpiece. In my opinion any suggestions otherwise are born of snobbery or poor taste.
- nontiko 2y ago
  Your dismissal of other opinions sounds like snobbery.
  - ElevenLathe 2y ago
    I wasn't dismissing the opinion, but the advice. Fine, the OP doesn't like the movie. That's different from telling people it isn't worth their time. It very clearly is, even if you don't like it. It's like saying economics students shouldn't read Marx. Of course they should, even if they spend the whole time making angry notes in the margins.
    - JKCalhoun 2y ago
      Unfortunately though once you see the film to judge for yourself if it has redeemable artistic qualities or not, it's too late. I said it was my opinion and I offer my own take simply as a cautionary tale.
      - ElevenLathe 2y ago
        Too late to do what? Spend the 83 minutes watching a different movie?
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    Isn't this whole thread really dissing on the article about Texas Chainsaw Massacre, that the article is snobbery. And this guy is saying 'no, you're being a snob for not giving it a chance'. And now you are saying 'you saying people being snobs makes you a snob'. So, guess, everyone is full of 'snobbery' on this one.
interludead 2y ago
Much powerful art emerges from personal struggles
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  I don't disagree but I prefer the art that comes of it be a balm (if that makes sense).
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Der_Einzige 2y ago
Oh man you rustled feathers with this. I'll try to further rustle them by saying that this exact critique applies to many body horror films, including all SAW films (yes, including the first one).
- wccrawford 2y ago
  I actually avoided the Saw films for a long time because of this. I finally watched them recently and they were better than I expected. Still nowhere close to my favorite movies... Not even favorite horror movies... But not the total trash that I expected.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  EC Comics (and now I am showing my age for sure) attracted me when I was 12 years old or so. I am not sure if the "Saw" films reciprocate (also have avoided them), but the victims in the EC Comics (and the "Night Gallery" TV series is another example) often "deserved" their gruesome end. It was karma ... or "vengeance porn" if you like (wow, with "Death Wish", "Walking Tall", "Legend of Billy Jack", vengeance porn was the Zeitgeist of the 70's). Older me is put off by "morbid justice", but I recognize the appeal.
deleted 2y ago
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adamtaylor_13 2y ago

Yeah the older I get, the more I realize just now depraved humans can be. I don’t take any joy watching fictional depictions of it, when I can easily go read “Machete Season”, and experience the horror that actually took place. More often it’s a better use of my time to find and appreciate the beauty in life.

kaycey2022 2y ago
I also feel the same. I guess this is why I like supernatural and cosmic horror more than the realistic variety.

davidw 2y ago

That's a great way of expressing it. I read the newspapers every day, and if you stop and consider what some other person or family is going through because of what's being reported, I don't know, I find there's pain aplenty there without needing to get more from 'entertainment' like movies or books.

codr7 2y ago
Careful what you feed your brain, there are a lot of amazing things happening out there that they aren't writing about. It's basically 100% fear at this point, just different flavors. Because it works, you just have to keep raising the volume faster than people get numb/bored.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Don't need painful art because there is enough pain in real life? "There's pain aplenty there without needing to get more from 'entertainment'" So no Diary of Anne Frank? no 'Night' by Wiesel, Etc... Etc...... Sometimes art is also a cautionary tale of what could happen again. Maybe Texas Chainsaw Massacre is also in that thrust, a cautionary tale of society collapse.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  I read "The Diary of a Young Girl" but not as entertainment. To be sure we should be aware of the real horrors in the world — we should not be naive about these things as they will likely happen again and we might more quickly recognize them as they approach.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    The original post objecting to this article, expressed the point that 'art' based on pain is not needed? worthy? should sugar coat it? It used the word 'art'. Then later post someone said 'entertainment'. This really splits hairs over what is 'art' which can be painful, versus 'entertainment' which should just be mindless marvel movies. One mans art, and all that.
- davidw 2y ago
  Anne Frank was a real person with a real story. It's not fiction. I think there is enough of that kind of anguish in the real world without inventing it. I'll happily read essays or opinion pieces about bad things that can happen. I just don't like things like, say, Romeo and Juliet.

nkrisc 2y ago

As I got older, I realized the supernatural wasn’t scary. Horror movies became boring. Every ghost movie made me roll my eyes in boredom. What became scary was the realization that the real monsters live among us. I also lost all desire to see people being cruel to other people in movies when I could see the same thing on the news.

Blackthorn 2y ago
Isn't that the entire point of Scooby Doo (a television show for children)?
- nkrisc 2y ago
  That is definitely my interpretation of it. I don’t know enough about it to know of that was the intent or not, but sure seems like it was.

slibhb 2y ago

Strong disagree about the movie. Today it comes across as an art house horror movie. Not particularly gory compared to modern gross-out slasher films (which I rarely watch or like). It's okay to dislike horror movies. But to me, as I watch more movies, I care less about genre. Romance, horror, thriller, whatever

interludead 2y ago
How time and context can shift our view of a film
JKCalhoun 2y ago
It's not the gore (or relative lack of it despite its reputation?) that I disagree with, it's the depravity. Depravity and gore are orthogonal (although, of course, often along for the ride with one another). I'm certain humans are capable of really depraved stuff in the real world, I just don't want to "capture it", watch it. As I said, I feel more strongly this way as I get older (for whatever reason).
- aidenn0 2y ago
  w.r.t. depravity vs gore: I remember in a director's commentary for Fight Club there was a scene where Ed Norton is on top of someone and punching their face repeatedly, to the point where the character is later shown as disfigured. They originally shot it from above, but it was deemed too gory, so they refilmed it as a view from below where all you see is Norton's face as he is punching and small amounts of blood spatter up onto him (this is the version that is in the final cut). The director's opinion was that the original was definitely more gory, but the final version was far more disturbing.
- patcon 2y ago
  I think I hear what you're saying. I have started to think of "depravity" (as you call it) as the "body horror" of a collectivist body politic. It takes the form of an agent of our collective, like some social gangrene, participating in a grotesque destruction of itself, the social fabric that binds us. Or alternatively, of the whole human super-organism turning on itself, in the case of disaster or zombie apocalypse movies where ppl riot and turn on one another in conflict. In the real world, though not always, we're often better than the grotesque versions of ourselves we are forced to watch. Maybe you're becoming more of a collectivist as you age, and you have less patience for the seeming distortion that is part of the experience?

benrutter 2y ago

I'm interested in whether you've seen like Hitchcock's Psycho, which is probably a lot less shocking in the way of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and a lot more often considered a "classic movie" but similarly based on the horrific acts of Ed Gein. If you have, did you feel the same way? If not, what was different about them for you?

JKCalhoun 2y ago
I saw "Psycho" probably over four decades ago. I think I came to it from its reputation — a terrifying film for its time, Hitchcock, apparently a scary shower scene... I would not have judged it when I was that age as to whether it was "self-actualizing art" or not (whatever that means). My only recollection was that I found the ending shocking and unexpected. Learning about it afterwards, I see how there were interesting aspects of "Psycho", particularly for its time, that went over my head when I was young: that the "protagonist" at the start of the film stole money and so should not have been sympathetic, that they switched protagonists half-way through.... It was a departure for sure for Hollywood. I have been working through the "1001 Films to See Before You Die" for a few years now and so have come upon films like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" at an age now where I seem to have lost my patience for depictions of cruelty. I liked "A Clockwork Orange" when I was younger, like it less now. Another example, I had heard about "Pink Flamingos" from its reputation but only saw it recently due to its being on "1001 Films". Hard pass on that film too (although I like some of John Waters later films).
- slothtrop 2y ago
  At least ACO has some redeeming qualities, like exploring the human condition, the nature of good vs evil, etc.
- dayjah 2y ago
  A Clockwork Orange is a really great example of how ultra-violence in film doesn’t age well. In the past I could watch the events in the rich folks’ home and understand the actions the Droogs took were bad, thus they deserved their respective punishments. I felt able to discuss their punishments and whether it was okay for the state to enact violence in response to violent offenders. But now… that scene absolutely horrifies me,- the sheer wanton violence of it is just too much and as such I’ve stopped watching the film entirely. All that has changed in that time, I think, is that I’ve grown older (approx. 20 years). Presumably in that time I’ve better learned about the long term impact of violence. Perhaps I’ve become more empathetic as I’ve matured. Either way, it culminates in no longer being able to recommend A Clockwork Orange as a “must watch”. (I’m being sensitive around potential triggers in my description of the scene).

spywaregorilla 2y ago

Strongly disagree. Horror is the best genre for interesting artistic conversations. What are we afraid of? Should we be afraid of it? How do we overcome it? These are great questions that are easier to coexist with fun action sequences without distracting from the movie's purpose. Texas Chainsaw is a great film. It explores an uncommon american sociological fear.

RajT88 2y ago
I get your point, and whether I agree or not is besides the point. I would suggest that the best place for interesting artistic conversations is lower budget films, which are often horror films (but any lower budget film is going to have lower expectations, and thus be less risk averse, and more creatively free).

spacechild1 2y ago

To me it's the overall atmosphere, the cinematography, the sound design and the mix between gruesome horror and grotesque comedy that make "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" a truely outstanding movie. As others have mentioned, there is surprisingly little graphical violence, yet it manages to maintain an unrelenting atmosphere of madness and terror.

deleted 2y ago

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ElevenLathe 2y ago

If you are a fan of movies on almost any level, you'll want to see Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I know this is all somewhat subjective, but many many people agree that it's a literal masterpiece. In my opinion any suggestions otherwise are born of snobbery or poor taste.

nontiko 2y ago
Your dismissal of other opinions sounds like snobbery.
- ElevenLathe 2y ago
  I wasn't dismissing the opinion, but the advice. Fine, the OP doesn't like the movie. That's different from telling people it isn't worth their time. It very clearly is, even if you don't like it. It's like saying economics students shouldn't read Marx. Of course they should, even if they spend the whole time making angry notes in the margins.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    Unfortunately though once you see the film to judge for yourself if it has redeemable artistic qualities or not, it's too late. I said it was my opinion and I offer my own take simply as a cautionary tale.
    - ElevenLathe 2y ago
      Too late to do what? Spend the 83 minutes watching a different movie?
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Isn't this whole thread really dissing on the article about Texas Chainsaw Massacre, that the article is snobbery. And this guy is saying 'no, you're being a snob for not giving it a chance'. And now you are saying 'you saying people being snobs makes you a snob'. So, guess, everyone is full of 'snobbery' on this one.

interludead 2y ago

Much powerful art emerges from personal struggles

JKCalhoun 2y ago
I don't disagree but I prefer the art that comes of it be a balm (if that makes sense).
- deleted 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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Der_Einzige 2y ago

Oh man you rustled feathers with this. I'll try to further rustle them by saying that this exact critique applies to many body horror films, including all SAW films (yes, including the first one).

wccrawford 2y ago
I actually avoided the Saw films for a long time because of this. I finally watched them recently and they were better than I expected. Still nowhere close to my favorite movies... Not even favorite horror movies... But not the total trash that I expected.
JKCalhoun 2y ago
EC Comics (and now I am showing my age for sure) attracted me when I was 12 years old or so. I am not sure if the "Saw" films reciprocate (also have avoided them), but the victims in the EC Comics (and the "Night Gallery" TV series is another example) often "deserved" their gruesome end. It was karma ... or "vengeance porn" if you like (wow, with "Death Wish", "Walking Tall", "Legend of Billy Jack", vengeance porn was the Zeitgeist of the 70's). Older me is put off by "morbid justice", but I recognize the appeal.

deleted 2y ago

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