3 ms·

"I just want the market forces to decide the cut, instead of the monopolies" Ironically it is the fetish with free market economics that produces the monopolie

by dools 2y ago

"I just want the market forces to decide the cut, instead of the monopolies" Ironically it is the fetish with free market economics that produces the monopolies. I wonder how many "techno optimist" libertarians are also cheering the fact that Apple has been forced by government regulation to allow competitors onto their platform.

chii 2y ago
> Ironically it is the fetish with free market economics that produces the monopolies. only when there's not sufficient regulations from cartel like behaviour. At the risk of invoking the no-real-scotsman fallacy, i would say that a real free market cannot support a monopoly, unless said monopoly is taking as thin a cut of the profit as possible (thus leaving no room for competition as the initial outlay of capital would not be worth it).
- dools 2y ago
  If you're saying a "real free market" requires "regulations from cartel like behaviour" then what entity is doing that regulating? And if that entity is superior to the market, then how can the market be "really free"?
  - chii 2y ago
    you're confusing superiority of the entity capable of regulating, to the actions of millions of participants in a market to push it to efficiency. The entity that regulates is not a participant in the free market. And free market does not imply anarchy - aka no rules.
stavros 2y ago
> Ironically it is the fetish with free market economics that produces the monopolies. Not really, it's the fetish with taking free market economics to the extreme. You can't really have a free market without regulation, though now we're getting in a GPL-vs-MIT-like argument of whether "free" means "without restrictions" or "with restrictions that ensure the desired outcomes are produced".
- abduhl 2y ago
  >> You can't really have a free market without regulation The definition of a free market is one without government regulation. There is no such GPL-vs-MIT debate here. Perhaps you are thinking of the term “capitalism”? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%20market https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%20market https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/free-market https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng... https://www.dictionary.com/browse/free-market https://www.dictionary.com/browse/free-market https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/free-market https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/free-... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp
  - throw10920 2y ago
    > The definition of a free market is one without government regulation. There is no such GPL-vs-MIT debate here. Actually, there is, because I was able to find several other definitions that include minimal government regulation. This is also how most of my friends and family use the term. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.britannica.com/money/free-market https://www.britannica.com/money/free-market
- ath3nd 2y ago
  [flagged]
- dools 2y ago
  > You can't really have a free market without regulation Indeed, as such the term "free market" is an oxymoron. Governments create markets, and the currency used to trade in those markets.

by dools 2y ago

chii 2y ago

> Ironically it is the fetish with free market economics that produces the monopolies. only when there's not sufficient regulations from cartel like behaviour. At the risk of invoking the no-real-scotsman fallacy, i would say that a real free market cannot support a monopoly, unless said monopoly is taking as thin a cut of the profit as possible (thus leaving no room for competition as the initial outlay of capital would not be worth it).

dools 2y ago
If you're saying a "real free market" requires "regulations from cartel like behaviour" then what entity is doing that regulating? And if that entity is superior to the market, then how can the market be "really free"?
- chii 2y ago
  you're confusing superiority of the entity capable of regulating, to the actions of millions of participants in a market to push it to efficiency. The entity that regulates is not a participant in the free market. And free market does not imply anarchy - aka no rules.

stavros 2y ago

> Ironically it is the fetish with free market economics that produces the monopolies. Not really, it's the fetish with taking free market economics to the extreme. You can't really have a free market without regulation, though now we're getting in a GPL-vs-MIT-like argument of whether "free" means "without restrictions" or "with restrictions that ensure the desired outcomes are produced".

abduhl 2y ago
>> You can't really have a free market without regulation The definition of a free market is one without government regulation. There is no such GPL-vs-MIT debate here. Perhaps you are thinking of the term “capitalism”? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%20market https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%20market https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/free-market https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/eng... https://www.dictionary.com/browse/free-market https://www.dictionary.com/browse/free-market https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/free-market https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/free-... https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp
- throw10920 2y ago
  > The definition of a free market is one without government regulation. There is no such GPL-vs-MIT debate here. Actually, there is, because I was able to find several other definitions that include minimal government regulation. This is also how most of my friends and family use the term. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.britannica.com/money/free-market https://www.britannica.com/money/free-market
ath3nd 2y ago
[flagged]
dools 2y ago
> You can't really have a free market without regulation Indeed, as such the term "free market" is an oxymoron. Governments create markets, and the currency used to trade in those markets.