14 ms·

The SNOO is cheaply made and poorly engineered despite the incredibly high price- and there isn't much to it. It should cost ~$45, not the $1695 it actually cos

by _yb2s 2y ago

The SNOO is cheaply made and poorly engineered despite the incredibly high price- and there isn't much to it. It should cost ~$45, not the $1695 it actually costs. I recently rebuilt a used snoo myself for my newborn nephew, and was shocked to see that it is built to move everything on rubber rollers, and those rollers use the wrong material, so they both slip and grind to dust quickly. That said- it works. I would have given my right arm for one when my son was newborn and had "colic" and would literally scream continuously from 10pm to 4am everyday for months. I was up all night holding him by myself, using the method developed by Dr. Harvey Karp (who later founded SNOO)- which is exactly what the SNOO copies and replicates automatically, which is the only thing that would calm him. It was exhausting, and I started to hallucinate frequently, and make dangerously bad decisions from lack of sleep. I think the SNOO would have saved me.

cwillu 2y ago
> built to move everything on rubber rollers, and those rollers use the wrong material, so they both slip and grind to dust quickly. Sounds like it was designed deliberately to reduce the aftermarket supply. Maybe the first person can sell it, but avoiding the creation of a robust secondary market has been the dream of a great many MBAs.
- dotBen 2y ago
  Or just wast built to the correct tolerances. We loved our Snoo but it had a life of about 4 months before our son grew out of it. It doesn't feel like those rollers need more than a year or two of life, even with multiple owners.
  - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
    That’s what they said. It’s only built to survive one, maybe two infants, but to avoid a secondary market the rockers purposefully fail. Both because it’s cheaper to buy material that won’t last, and because it makes prospective buyers more reliant on the manufacturer rather than a cheaper aftermarket supply.
- 2cynykyl 2y ago
  Or put a fake expiry date on it like car seats! Diabolical genius.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    Don't give them any ideas
etrautmann 2y ago
We borrowed a snoo and set it all up before giving birth - everything was ready. Come home from the hospital with a one day old and it refuses to connect to the app. At some point after spending 45 min debugging and resetting the device I realized how awful this experience was. Internet of shit.
- mtmail 2y ago
  Did it eventually work?
  - etrautmann 2y ago
    yeah I was able to make it work, though we found that our daughter absolutely hated the automated rocking of the Snoo and there wasn't any automatic gentle setting. Pretty perplexing actually, it only had four levels and you could either set it to always rock at whatever level you want, or react to crying etc. and rock then, but with a minimum level of 2/4. Even that was too much and she just hated it. We used the snoo passively, and the swaddle strap-down feature was actually a pretty nice setup that other basinnets could and should use, without any electronics at all. The swaddles used with the snoo strap down to the base and prevent the baby from rolling around. This passive feature was pretty nice, but not really the purpose of the device.
- stavros 2y ago
  Smart devices' biggest appeal is that they can turn what was a one-off sale to a recurring subscription. When I say "appeal" I mean to the company, not to the customer, of course.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    That and all the data collection opportunities. Either way, you'll never stop paying.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    I remember my dad explaining this to me when I was a wee lad - his company was building hardware, and they were going to charge a fee once it was installed. It seemed fucking stupid to me now when I was young and dumb, and it seems fucking stupid to me now that I'm old.
er4hn 2y ago
Where can you get a better built and cheaper bassinet?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- _yb2s 2y ago
  You can get regular bassinets everywhere, and they're pretty much all "better" and "cheaper" but none will have the function the SNOO has of rocking the baby in a certain way, along with a certain sound, that is claimed to mimic the movement and sound of the womb, and is clearly extremely calming. You can do it with just your hands using instructions from "the happiest baby on the block" video, also made by the owner and inventor of SNOO. If you can afford it, get a plain untreated wood crib/bassinet with a natural fiber flame retardant free mattress. I posted elsewhere in this thread about the theory that flame retardants might contribute to SIDS, and the plain wood is based on the fact that kids will chew on it, and get particles of paint or plastic in their mouth otherwise.
aaron695 2y ago
[flagged]
- _yb2s 2y ago
  You’re being a jerk, and insulting neurodivergent people at the same time. Why not just ask where I got that figure? I explained it here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286278 Obviously a patented small volume item will cost more than its materials, but the fact remains that the build quality is low, and not what you see with other high end baby equipment. FWIW I have run companies and invented and sold electronic devices… I understand very well the economics and practical issues involved.
  - aaron695 2y ago
    [dead]
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Yes, I was being hyperbolic, that should be obvious. No I am not going to 'look at a teardown' - my whole point was I tore it down to parts, rebuilt it, and fixed design flaws. I was extremely unimpressed by the build quality and major design flaws for something so expensive. It failed in the night with my newborn nephew on it. I also said I would have paid a lot more than they're selling for, if it existed when I had a kid. I love tech, but I'm anti shitty-quality-tech that isn't safe, and doesn't last, especially when a baby is supposed to sleep on it and it costs $1695.
_yb2s 2y ago
For people criticizing me for saying "it should cost $45" - that is based on what it actually costs for a lower end electric baby swing with sound[1], which is not fundamentally simpler or cheaper to make than the SNOO. I'm just guesstimating what a device of this (very low) quality would actually cost on the open market, if it weren't uniquely effective and patented, which it is. I'm fine with them charging a lot for a unique invention that works better, but irked that they didn't then give it decent build quality. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Starts-Paradise-Portable-Automatic/dp/B0BTDRL37K/ https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Starts-Paradise-Portable-Autom...
- tqi 2y ago
  A baby swing is not a bassinet.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    So? A SNOO isn't quite a bassinet either. The baby is strapped in and rocks back and forth on a plastic tray with a motor and speakers.
    - tqi 2y ago
      https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s---9R0HlX1--/bc01nunsqc6cype1zqrd.pdf https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s---9R0HlX1--/bc01nu... "Stay near and watch baby during use. This product is not safe for sleep or unsupervised use. If baby falls asleep, remove baby as soon as possible and place baby on a firm, flat sleep surface such as a crib or bassinet. Never let the child sleep in this product."
      - _yb2s 2y ago
        Why all the aggression? What is your point? I never said that swing was a bassinet, I said from my experience completely dismantling and rebuilding a SNOO the build quality is on par with cheap baby swings, and not what you would expect for a device this expensive.
29athrowaway 2y ago
Make sure there's no soap residue after washing bottles.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Why are you responding that to me? Are you saying that is why my son was crying so much? He was breast fed, and only rarely used a bottle... and when we did we used high temperature water only sterilization, never soap. The reason he was crying is most likely that he was a big baby, and wasn't getting enough milk initially.
  - 29athrowaway 2y ago
    > Are you saying that is why my son was crying so much? Not your son specifically, it's just a crying trigger overall, along with the other classics like gas. > only sterilization, never soap. Sterilization is a bit oversold. It's the most useful the first time you use a bottle, after that it has diminishing returns. In general, parents are oversold pretty much everything. > wasn't getting enough milk initially. It's common in the beginning. "Mother's milk tea" is great to increase milk supply, but I can see it's not an issue now. Enjoy the baby, they grow fast.
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      I agree, the sterilization is unnecessary, but not difficult. I did so for the sake of others that were concerned about it.
HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
>It was exhausting, and I started to hallucinate frequently, and make dangerously bad decisions from lack of sleep. The Western (American, especially) approach to early infant care is mind-boggling. In many cultures and nations, often those less "developed", parents suffer little sleep deprivation. Westerners will pay small fortunes for a cloud subscription bassinet but can't create the basics of a functioning community.
- gyomu 2y ago
  > Westerners will pay small fortunes for a cloud subscription bassinet but can't create the basics of a functioning community. What a weird way to phrase things. It has been systematically dismantled and taken away from them over the last few centuries by a relatively minuscule group of people with vested interests.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    Highly agreed.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  > Westerners will pay small fortunes for a cloud subscription bassinet but can't create the basics of a functioning community. That is incredibly insulting, what would you have done in my situation specifically? How the heck can you "create the basics of a functioning community" when you're struggling just to keep a baby alive and haven't slept in two weeks? People in those other cultures didn't create the culture, they were born into it. The only place I could find work to support my newborn was 1000 miles away from my family and friends. The mom had serious postpartum depression and rage, and generally refused to help take care of our child. She was aggressive and abusive, and locked herself in a room for days on end so I was 100% on my own while trying not to lose my job. I begged people for help and advice but got only disdain "if you're having a hard time you need to just relax" and "parenting is easy for dads! they just play and the mom does it all!" There were no open spots in any kind of childcare around my house- they said "apply before you decide to have a kid." I had done so- but the person at the counter pocketed the deposit and quit. I eventually paid 110% of my salary for a nanny to help me, and burned through all my savings just to survive. Now that I had this experience, I go out of my way to be there- by airplane if necessary for family and friends that need it.
Ancalagon 2y ago
It astounds me how much money people a willing to spend on crap like this. I mean, thank you for keeping the economy running, but also how do you afford to keep doing it?
- autoexec 2y ago
  Parents and baby showers probably help
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Don't dismiss something you don't understand the need for. Even fairly poor people buy these when they can barely afford it because they need it, and there is no realistic alternative. It effectively solves a desperate problem for people in a desperate situation so they can actually sleep and not go crazy and lose their jobs or get hurt (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286547). Humans evolved to have lots of baby caretakers, and sometimes newborn babies need to be held and rocked almost continuously- yet not everyone has that kind of help available. When my sister got one I couldn't believe the incredible disdain from older, non-working family members who raised their kids with the help of a big community that she had no way to access. These same family members that did not step in to help take care of the baby.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  I need you to stay up for a week straight while a tiny infant screams at you, and then tell me whether you'd pay $20/month to possibly make it stop.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Parent of a formerly colicky baby here, but I agree with OP. Products like this prey on modern parents who have unrealistic expectations of what is needed of them by their baby. Our son didn't sleep for the first two weeks of his life. We tried everything, including swings and rockers and white noise. Nothing worked, and none of us were sleeping (very similar to OP's story). He was losing weight and the doctor was getting worried. The breakthrough came when my wife decided to finally just leave him alone to cry in the (very dumb) bassinet. It took a few minutes, but he finally fell asleep and slept longer than he ever had before and woke up happy. From then on that's what we did—he went down crying, he woke up happy. He started putting weight on again and became a healthy happy kid. Based on the concern we were starting to get from the doctor, letting him cry himself to sleep probably saved his life. Too many parents accept the unrealistic expectations placed on them by our culture, and I'm convinced at this point that those expectations have been largely crafted by people who benefit financially from selling the "solution". Teach them difficult holds that temporarily work but are unsustainable, then sell them an incredibly overpriced product that automates the hold. Assure them that letting their baby figure out that life outside the womb doesn't have to resemble life inside is abuse, lest they realize that babies can and do sleep in beds and have for centuries.
29athrowaway 2y ago
$45 seems too low, consider: - manufacturing cost - manufacturer margin - marketing - labor - insurance - income taxes - retailer margin - customer support - etc. But yeah, $1695 seems excessive.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Fair enough

by _yb2s 2y ago

cwillu 2y ago

> built to move everything on rubber rollers, and those rollers use the wrong material, so they both slip and grind to dust quickly. Sounds like it was designed deliberately to reduce the aftermarket supply. Maybe the first person can sell it, but avoiding the creation of a robust secondary market has been the dream of a great many MBAs.

dotBen 2y ago
Or just wast built to the correct tolerances. We loved our Snoo but it had a life of about 4 months before our son grew out of it. It doesn't feel like those rollers need more than a year or two of life, even with multiple owners.
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  That’s what they said. It’s only built to survive one, maybe two infants, but to avoid a secondary market the rockers purposefully fail. Both because it’s cheaper to buy material that won’t last, and because it makes prospective buyers more reliant on the manufacturer rather than a cheaper aftermarket supply.
2cynykyl 2y ago
Or put a fake expiry date on it like car seats! Diabolical genius.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  Don't give them any ideas

etrautmann 2y ago

We borrowed a snoo and set it all up before giving birth - everything was ready. Come home from the hospital with a one day old and it refuses to connect to the app. At some point after spending 45 min debugging and resetting the device I realized how awful this experience was. Internet of shit.

mtmail 2y ago
Did it eventually work?
- etrautmann 2y ago
  yeah I was able to make it work, though we found that our daughter absolutely hated the automated rocking of the Snoo and there wasn't any automatic gentle setting. Pretty perplexing actually, it only had four levels and you could either set it to always rock at whatever level you want, or react to crying etc. and rock then, but with a minimum level of 2/4. Even that was too much and she just hated it. We used the snoo passively, and the swaddle strap-down feature was actually a pretty nice setup that other basinnets could and should use, without any electronics at all. The swaddles used with the snoo strap down to the base and prevent the baby from rolling around. This passive feature was pretty nice, but not really the purpose of the device.
stavros 2y ago
Smart devices' biggest appeal is that they can turn what was a one-off sale to a recurring subscription. When I say "appeal" I mean to the company, not to the customer, of course.
- autoexec 2y ago
  That and all the data collection opportunities. Either way, you'll never stop paying.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  I remember my dad explaining this to me when I was a wee lad - his company was building hardware, and they were going to charge a fee once it was installed. It seemed fucking stupid to me now when I was young and dumb, and it seems fucking stupid to me now that I'm old.

er4hn 2y ago

Where can you get a better built and cheaper bassinet?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
_yb2s 2y ago
You can get regular bassinets everywhere, and they're pretty much all "better" and "cheaper" but none will have the function the SNOO has of rocking the baby in a certain way, along with a certain sound, that is claimed to mimic the movement and sound of the womb, and is clearly extremely calming. You can do it with just your hands using instructions from "the happiest baby on the block" video, also made by the owner and inventor of SNOO. If you can afford it, get a plain untreated wood crib/bassinet with a natural fiber flame retardant free mattress. I posted elsewhere in this thread about the theory that flame retardants might contribute to SIDS, and the plain wood is based on the fact that kids will chew on it, and get particles of paint or plastic in their mouth otherwise.

aaron695 2y ago

[flagged]

_yb2s 2y ago
You’re being a jerk, and insulting neurodivergent people at the same time. Why not just ask where I got that figure? I explained it here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286278 Obviously a patented small volume item will cost more than its materials, but the fact remains that the build quality is low, and not what you see with other high end baby equipment. FWIW I have run companies and invented and sold electronic devices… I understand very well the economics and practical issues involved.
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]
_yb2s 2y ago
Yes, I was being hyperbolic, that should be obvious. No I am not going to 'look at a teardown' - my whole point was I tore it down to parts, rebuilt it, and fixed design flaws. I was extremely unimpressed by the build quality and major design flaws for something so expensive. It failed in the night with my newborn nephew on it. I also said I would have paid a lot more than they're selling for, if it existed when I had a kid. I love tech, but I'm anti shitty-quality-tech that isn't safe, and doesn't last, especially when a baby is supposed to sleep on it and it costs $1695.

_yb2s 2y ago

For people criticizing me for saying "it should cost $45" - that is based on what it actually costs for a lower end electric baby swing with sound[1], which is not fundamentally simpler or cheaper to make than the SNOO. I'm just guesstimating what a device of this (very low) quality would actually cost on the open market, if it weren't uniquely effective and patented, which it is. I'm fine with them charging a lot for a unique invention that works better, but irked that they didn't then give it decent build quality. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Starts-Paradise-Portable-Automatic/dp/B0BTDRL37K/ https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Starts-Paradise-Portable-Autom...

tqi 2y ago
A baby swing is not a bassinet.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  So? A SNOO isn't quite a bassinet either. The baby is strapped in and rocks back and forth on a plastic tray with a motor and speakers.
  - tqi 2y ago
    https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s---9R0HlX1--/bc01nunsqc6cype1zqrd.pdf https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s---9R0HlX1--/bc01nu... "Stay near and watch baby during use. This product is not safe for sleep or unsupervised use. If baby falls asleep, remove baby as soon as possible and place baby on a firm, flat sleep surface such as a crib or bassinet. Never let the child sleep in this product."
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      Why all the aggression? What is your point? I never said that swing was a bassinet, I said from my experience completely dismantling and rebuilding a SNOO the build quality is on par with cheap baby swings, and not what you would expect for a device this expensive.

29athrowaway 2y ago

Make sure there's no soap residue after washing bottles.

_yb2s 2y ago
Why are you responding that to me? Are you saying that is why my son was crying so much? He was breast fed, and only rarely used a bottle... and when we did we used high temperature water only sterilization, never soap. The reason he was crying is most likely that he was a big baby, and wasn't getting enough milk initially.
- 29athrowaway 2y ago
  > Are you saying that is why my son was crying so much? Not your son specifically, it's just a crying trigger overall, along with the other classics like gas. > only sterilization, never soap. Sterilization is a bit oversold. It's the most useful the first time you use a bottle, after that it has diminishing returns. In general, parents are oversold pretty much everything. > wasn't getting enough milk initially. It's common in the beginning. "Mother's milk tea" is great to increase milk supply, but I can see it's not an issue now. Enjoy the baby, they grow fast.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    I agree, the sterilization is unnecessary, but not difficult. I did so for the sake of others that were concerned about it.

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago

>It was exhausting, and I started to hallucinate frequently, and make dangerously bad decisions from lack of sleep. The Western (American, especially) approach to early infant care is mind-boggling. In many cultures and nations, often those less "developed", parents suffer little sleep deprivation. Westerners will pay small fortunes for a cloud subscription bassinet but can't create the basics of a functioning community.

gyomu 2y ago
> Westerners will pay small fortunes for a cloud subscription bassinet but can't create the basics of a functioning community. What a weird way to phrase things. It has been systematically dismantled and taken away from them over the last few centuries by a relatively minuscule group of people with vested interests.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  Highly agreed.
_yb2s 2y ago
> Westerners will pay small fortunes for a cloud subscription bassinet but can't create the basics of a functioning community. That is incredibly insulting, what would you have done in my situation specifically? How the heck can you "create the basics of a functioning community" when you're struggling just to keep a baby alive and haven't slept in two weeks? People in those other cultures didn't create the culture, they were born into it. The only place I could find work to support my newborn was 1000 miles away from my family and friends. The mom had serious postpartum depression and rage, and generally refused to help take care of our child. She was aggressive and abusive, and locked herself in a room for days on end so I was 100% on my own while trying not to lose my job. I begged people for help and advice but got only disdain "if you're having a hard time you need to just relax" and "parenting is easy for dads! they just play and the mom does it all!" There were no open spots in any kind of childcare around my house- they said "apply before you decide to have a kid." I had done so- but the person at the counter pocketed the deposit and quit. I eventually paid 110% of my salary for a nanny to help me, and burned through all my savings just to survive. Now that I had this experience, I go out of my way to be there- by airplane if necessary for family and friends that need it.

Ancalagon 2y ago

It astounds me how much money people a willing to spend on crap like this. I mean, thank you for keeping the economy running, but also how do you afford to keep doing it?

autoexec 2y ago
Parents and baby showers probably help
_yb2s 2y ago
Don't dismiss something you don't understand the need for. Even fairly poor people buy these when they can barely afford it because they need it, and there is no realistic alternative. It effectively solves a desperate problem for people in a desperate situation so they can actually sleep and not go crazy and lose their jobs or get hurt (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41286547). Humans evolved to have lots of baby caretakers, and sometimes newborn babies need to be held and rocked almost continuously- yet not everyone has that kind of help available. When my sister got one I couldn't believe the incredible disdain from older, non-working family members who raised their kids with the help of a big community that she had no way to access. These same family members that did not step in to help take care of the baby.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
I need you to stay up for a week straight while a tiny infant screams at you, and then tell me whether you'd pay $20/month to possibly make it stop.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Parent of a formerly colicky baby here, but I agree with OP. Products like this prey on modern parents who have unrealistic expectations of what is needed of them by their baby. Our son didn't sleep for the first two weeks of his life. We tried everything, including swings and rockers and white noise. Nothing worked, and none of us were sleeping (very similar to OP's story). He was losing weight and the doctor was getting worried. The breakthrough came when my wife decided to finally just leave him alone to cry in the (very dumb) bassinet. It took a few minutes, but he finally fell asleep and slept longer than he ever had before and woke up happy. From then on that's what we did—he went down crying, he woke up happy. He started putting weight on again and became a healthy happy kid. Based on the concern we were starting to get from the doctor, letting him cry himself to sleep probably saved his life. Too many parents accept the unrealistic expectations placed on them by our culture, and I'm convinced at this point that those expectations have been largely crafted by people who benefit financially from selling the "solution". Teach them difficult holds that temporarily work but are unsustainable, then sell them an incredibly overpriced product that automates the hold. Assure them that letting their baby figure out that life outside the womb doesn't have to resemble life inside is abuse, lest they realize that babies can and do sleep in beds and have for centuries.

29athrowaway 2y ago

$45 seems too low, consider: - manufacturing cost - manufacturer margin - marketing - labor - insurance - income taxes - retailer margin - customer support - etc. But yeah, $1695 seems excessive.

_yb2s 2y ago
Fair enough