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By law, Chinese citizens must install the gov't spyware – ''anti-fraud'' app

43 points by greatgib 2y ago

Alifatisk 2y ago
Anyone who can verify this claim?
- hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
  From what I heard it's pretty close. You don't HAVE to install it but they really push you to do it. And once it is installed it monitors everything. Its original utility is fraud and porn detection, but IMO it has developed into a mass surveillance tool. Some people bring 2+ phones to shield themselves from this app. The police is just shooting for some KPIs so they don't really care as long as the app gets installed somehow. But maybe in the future all phones will have it pre-installed.
- deadfoxygrandpa 2y ago
  it's just not true, its straight up fake news
aaron695 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anti-Fraud_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anti-Fraud_Center APK - https://apkpure.com/cn/guo-jia-fan-zha-zhong-xin/com.hicorenational.antifraud https://apkpure.com/cn/guo-jia-fan-zha-zhong-xin/com.hicoren...
littlecosmic 2y ago
This post reads as anti-China propaganda in tone. I found this less breathless account of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20240326212544/https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/phones-police-checks-03262024133232.html https://web.archive.org/web/20240326212544/https://www.rfa.o...
- wokwokwok 2y ago
  > By law, Chinese citizens must install the gov't spyware - ''anti-fraud'' app. > If it detects you trying to install apps gov't disapproved such as Twitter or cryptocurrency, immediately an alarm sends to police. How is this breathlessly anti-China? Isn’t this almost literally the same that the (much longer) article you link to says? The only real difference seems to be that this has been the case for some time but only recently have the police been pushing it? ? (Or, is there some hidden thread only people with Twitter accounts can see linked to this this tweet?)
  - geckbench 2y ago
    [dead]
  - littlecosmic 2y ago
    The story has more details and sets the context that makes it obvious that it’s not more nefarious than the existing firewall policy. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be criticised or anything.
- rty32 2y ago
  Before labeling it as anti-China, maybe do a bit more research on the topic first. Anyone who's paying attention to China's surveillance programs knows this project has been running for years, and its impact is greater than what this post describes. It really is a police state. Maybe it is beyond your imagination so you can't comprehend how this is possible, but that's the reality.
  - littlecosmic 2y ago
    It’s ok, I can imagine it. I just think the extra context the article provides is more measured and less emotive, so you can read the situation better. I’m in favour of criticising everything, including China.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
onetokeoverthe 2y ago
[dead]
CrzyLngPwd 2y ago
The Chinese could learn a lot from our government in the UK: https://www.amnesty.org.uk/why-taking-government-court-mass-spying-gchq-nsa-tempora-prism-edward-snowden https://www.amnesty.org.uk/why-taking-government-court-mass-... No app is needed. Spying by default.
geckbench 2y ago
Completely fake news by the haters towards China. It’s simply an app that blocks scam calls and text, in fact, you don’t need to install it if you don’t like. Also on the app stores, there are plenty alternatives to choose from. The real gov spyware is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
39896880 2y ago
Reminds me if Apple’s Safari “Fraudulent Websites Warning” which sends your IP along with “information calculated about the websites you visit” to Google. If you’re in HK or Mainland China, it goes to Tencent[0]. I’m sure Google only uses it for ad purposes [0]https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/safari/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/safari/
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  Isn’t that mixed in with a bunch of random data / websites or is it only Firefox that does that?
  - 39896880 2y ago
    Apple says "The actual website address is never shared with the safe browsing provider" but this feels a little like Meta saying "we never sell your private information." Technically true, but in a way that usefully redirects attention away from other behavior that an otherwise discerning user would not prefer.
  - Doxin 2y ago
    Last time I looked at it you're only sending a hash prefix of the website address. You get back a list of sites matching that hash prefix. Works basically the same as the "Have I been pwned" API.
hsfzxjy 2y ago
It's not "enforced by law", but recommended.

43 points by greatgib 2y ago

Alifatisk 2y ago

Anyone who can verify this claim?

hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
From what I heard it's pretty close. You don't HAVE to install it but they really push you to do it. And once it is installed it monitors everything. Its original utility is fraud and porn detection, but IMO it has developed into a mass surveillance tool. Some people bring 2+ phones to shield themselves from this app. The police is just shooting for some KPIs so they don't really care as long as the app gets installed somehow. But maybe in the future all phones will have it pre-installed.
deadfoxygrandpa 2y ago
it's just not true, its straight up fake news

aaron695 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anti-Fraud_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anti-Fraud_Center APK - https://apkpure.com/cn/guo-jia-fan-zha-zhong-xin/com.hicorenational.antifraud https://apkpure.com/cn/guo-jia-fan-zha-zhong-xin/com.hicoren...

littlecosmic 2y ago

This post reads as anti-China propaganda in tone. I found this less breathless account of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20240326212544/https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/phones-police-checks-03262024133232.html https://web.archive.org/web/20240326212544/https://www.rfa.o...

wokwokwok 2y ago
> By law, Chinese citizens must install the gov't spyware - ''anti-fraud'' app. > If it detects you trying to install apps gov't disapproved such as Twitter or cryptocurrency, immediately an alarm sends to police. How is this breathlessly anti-China? Isn’t this almost literally the same that the (much longer) article you link to says? The only real difference seems to be that this has been the case for some time but only recently have the police been pushing it? ? (Or, is there some hidden thread only people with Twitter accounts can see linked to this this tweet?)
- geckbench 2y ago
  [dead]
- littlecosmic 2y ago
  The story has more details and sets the context that makes it obvious that it’s not more nefarious than the existing firewall policy. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be criticised or anything.
rty32 2y ago
Before labeling it as anti-China, maybe do a bit more research on the topic first. Anyone who's paying attention to China's surveillance programs knows this project has been running for years, and its impact is greater than what this post describes. It really is a police state. Maybe it is beyond your imagination so you can't comprehend how this is possible, but that's the reality.
- littlecosmic 2y ago
  It’s ok, I can imagine it. I just think the extra context the article provides is more measured and less emotive, so you can read the situation better. I’m in favour of criticising everything, including China.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago

onetokeoverthe 2y ago

[dead]

CrzyLngPwd 2y ago

The Chinese could learn a lot from our government in the UK: https://www.amnesty.org.uk/why-taking-government-court-mass-spying-gchq-nsa-tempora-prism-edward-snowden https://www.amnesty.org.uk/why-taking-government-court-mass-... No app is needed. Spying by default.

geckbench 2y ago

Completely fake news by the haters towards China. It’s simply an app that blocks scam calls and text, in fact, you don’t need to install it if you don’t like. Also on the app stores, there are plenty alternatives to choose from. The real gov spyware is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM

39896880 2y ago

Reminds me if Apple’s Safari “Fraudulent Websites Warning” which sends your IP along with “information calculated about the websites you visit” to Google. If you’re in HK or Mainland China, it goes to Tencent[0]. I’m sure Google only uses it for ad purposes [0]https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/safari/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/safari/

wodenokoto 2y ago
Isn’t that mixed in with a bunch of random data / websites or is it only Firefox that does that?
- 39896880 2y ago
  Apple says "The actual website address is never shared with the safe browsing provider" but this feels a little like Meta saying "we never sell your private information." Technically true, but in a way that usefully redirects attention away from other behavior that an otherwise discerning user would not prefer.
- Doxin 2y ago
  Last time I looked at it you're only sending a hash prefix of the website address. You get back a list of sites matching that hash prefix. Works basically the same as the "Have I been pwned" API.

hsfzxjy 2y ago

It's not "enforced by law", but recommended.