6 ms·

It seems that way to me too, but we have examples of high-censorship, high-freedom societies like Germany, and high-censorship, low-freedom societies like Singa

It seems that way to me too, but we have examples of high-censorship, high-freedom societies like Germany, and high-censorship, low-freedom societies like Singapore, and both report high levels of happiness. The devil really is in the details.

alon_honig 2y ago
This is incorrect. Singapore is not a high censorship/low freedom society. You should visit countries before you trash them.
- refurb 2y ago
  I guess “high censorship” is subjective, but you can’t protest without a police permit, media organizations are licensed by the government, certain foreign media have been effectively banned when when they made statements the government didn’t like, you can’t put on a play without script approval by the government, all movies are presented by the government, and libel laws have been used to bankrupt political opponents, forcing them out of government. Seems pretty “high” censorship to me.
- andsoitis 2y ago
  > Singapore is not a high censorship/low freedom society Singapore constrains freedom quite substantially. Singapore’s parliamentary political system has been dominated by the ruling People’s Action Party (PAP) and the family of current prime minister Lee Hsien Loong since 1959. The electoral and legal framework that the PAP has constructed allows for some political pluralism, but it constrains the growth of opposition parties and limits freedoms of expression, assembly, and association. Deeper Analysis of Political Rights and Civil Liberties: https://freedomhouse.org/country/singapore/freedom-world/2024 https://freedomhouse.org/country/singapore/freedom-world/202...
- 39896880 2y ago
  I have, and I found it much as Gibson did [0] [0] https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/ https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/
- Cupertino95014 2y ago
  > You should visit countries before you trash them. I haven't visited North Korea either. That shouldn't stop anyone from opining on it.
  - 00_hum 2y ago
    this literally a perfect example. your idea of NK is based mostly on reporting that is biased, propaganda, etc. and here you are mocking people who doubt any of that. lol. im not saying NK is secretly good but i think you would discover a lot of things that you didnt know. especially regarding how things got the way they are.
    - Log_out_ 2y ago
      Its based on lights out satellite imagery.
    - Cupertino95014 2y ago
      > you would discover a lot of things actually, no I wouldn't, because when a Westerner goes to NK, he or she is strictly controlled as to what they can see. In particular, no citizen will talk unguardedly to you because of their intense fear of the police. If you think that's not true, why don't you tell us about your trip there (you did take one, didn't you?)
      - 00_hum 2y ago
        what a fool you are. take for example the markets. the markets in NK are a thriving fixture of everyday life. they are also completely illegal. people cross the border into china frequently. there is a huge underground in NK but people who only consume american propaganda only learn about the NK police. there is more to the picture.
        Cupertino95014 2y ago
        > what a fool you are. You still haven't told us whether you've been there or not. As for the Western picture of it: it comes largely from NK citizens who've escaped. Call it "propaganda" if you like, but if it were false then there would be a net inflow of people who are as hip to reality as you think you are. Is there? South Koreans would be trying to move IN if you were correct; after all, they're closer than anyone and they speak the language.
- fennecbutt 2y ago
  It is low freedom if you're gay.
sunaookami 2y ago
>high-censorship, high-freedom societies like Germany When the police storms your home (the wrong one at first, too) because you called a minister a dick on Twitter, that's not "high-freedom".
- 39896880 2y ago
  In my estimation, a country can have high censorship but also high ability for people to change the government (that’s what I call “freedom” here). So, in that sense, Germany is high-freedom because it can elect people to change the laws which enable censorship.
  - Slava_Propanei 2y ago
    Unless those people want to vote for a banned popular party
parineum 2y ago
What's happiness got to do with it?
trompetenaccoun 2y ago
"High-freedom": https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-offer-police-extra-search-141141025.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-offer-police-extra-search...
- notTooFarGone 2y ago
  [dead]
Gud 2y ago
Germany isn’t “high-freedom”. Their people might be happy(though Germany seems to get more and more politically polarised every day), I wouldn’t know.

alon_honig 2y ago

This is incorrect. Singapore is not a high censorship/low freedom society. You should visit countries before you trash them.

refurb 2y ago
I guess “high censorship” is subjective, but you can’t protest without a police permit, media organizations are licensed by the government, certain foreign media have been effectively banned when when they made statements the government didn’t like, you can’t put on a play without script approval by the government, all movies are presented by the government, and libel laws have been used to bankrupt political opponents, forcing them out of government. Seems pretty “high” censorship to me.
andsoitis 2y ago
> Singapore is not a high censorship/low freedom society Singapore constrains freedom quite substantially. Singapore’s parliamentary political system has been dominated by the ruling People’s Action Party (PAP) and the family of current prime minister Lee Hsien Loong since 1959. The electoral and legal framework that the PAP has constructed allows for some political pluralism, but it constrains the growth of opposition parties and limits freedoms of expression, assembly, and association. Deeper Analysis of Political Rights and Civil Liberties: https://freedomhouse.org/country/singapore/freedom-world/2024 https://freedomhouse.org/country/singapore/freedom-world/202...
39896880 2y ago
I have, and I found it much as Gibson did [0] [0] https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/ https://www.wired.com/1993/04/gibson-2/
Cupertino95014 2y ago
> You should visit countries before you trash them. I haven't visited North Korea either. That shouldn't stop anyone from opining on it.
- 00_hum 2y ago
  this literally a perfect example. your idea of NK is based mostly on reporting that is biased, propaganda, etc. and here you are mocking people who doubt any of that. lol. im not saying NK is secretly good but i think you would discover a lot of things that you didnt know. especially regarding how things got the way they are.
  - Log_out_ 2y ago
    Its based on lights out satellite imagery.
  - Cupertino95014 2y ago
    > you would discover a lot of things actually, no I wouldn't, because when a Westerner goes to NK, he or she is strictly controlled as to what they can see. In particular, no citizen will talk unguardedly to you because of their intense fear of the police. If you think that's not true, why don't you tell us about your trip there (you did take one, didn't you?)
    - 00_hum 2y ago
      what a fool you are. take for example the markets. the markets in NK are a thriving fixture of everyday life. they are also completely illegal. people cross the border into china frequently. there is a huge underground in NK but people who only consume american propaganda only learn about the NK police. there is more to the picture.
      - Cupertino95014 2y ago
        > what a fool you are. You still haven't told us whether you've been there or not. As for the Western picture of it: it comes largely from NK citizens who've escaped. Call it "propaganda" if you like, but if it were false then there would be a net inflow of people who are as hip to reality as you think you are. Is there? South Koreans would be trying to move IN if you were correct; after all, they're closer than anyone and they speak the language.
fennecbutt 2y ago
It is low freedom if you're gay.

sunaookami 2y ago

>high-censorship, high-freedom societies like Germany When the police storms your home (the wrong one at first, too) because you called a minister a dick on Twitter, that's not "high-freedom".

39896880 2y ago
In my estimation, a country can have high censorship but also high ability for people to change the government (that’s what I call “freedom” here). So, in that sense, Germany is high-freedom because it can elect people to change the laws which enable censorship.
- Slava_Propanei 2y ago
  Unless those people want to vote for a banned popular party

parineum 2y ago

What's happiness got to do with it?

trompetenaccoun 2y ago

"High-freedom": https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-offer-police-extra-search-141141025.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-offer-police-extra-search...

notTooFarGone 2y ago
[dead]

Gud 2y ago

Germany isn’t “high-freedom”. Their people might be happy(though Germany seems to get more and more politically polarised every day), I wouldn’t know.