3 ms·

This is an interesting story but this article looks really poorly written/biased. It didn't until the QA at the end clarify that this was a 3 month suspension.

by cdrini 2y ago

This is an interesting story but this article looks really poorly written/biased. It didn't until the QA at the end clarify that this was a 3 month suspension. It instead started with "bans" in the title, walks back to "suspended" in the first line, and then didn't clarify that point until effectively the appendix to "3 month suspension". Little tricks like this make me lose faith in the objectivity of an article. Then there's the cherry picking of reasons, general tone, which makes this feel more like rage bait than an article meant to inform. I would love to read an unbiased article on this. Edit: here's the source suspension announcement, which has lots of comments: https://discuss.python.org/t/three-month-suspension-for-a-core-developer/60250 https://discuss.python.org/t/three-month-suspension-for-a-co... And a less ragebait-y albeit much longer critical write-up from another developer: https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestration-of-tim https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestr...

veltas 2y ago
Looking at the actual announcement made me more annoyed than Lunduke's article did.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Yeah what kind of adult believes another adult would believe this framing of an event? This is such 10-year-old "Mom, Billy hit me just because I looked at him!" energy.
- mcphage 2y ago
  “He was banned for a whole bunch of things! Let’s pick out one or two, isn’t this unfair?”
jsheard 2y ago
> This is an interesting story but this article looks really poorly written/biased. Lunduke went off the deep end a while ago, anything he writes about codes of conduct is coming from the perspective of someone who published a list of companies to boycott for celebrating Pride Month. He is the archetypical person that CoCs are intended to exclude and he's extremely bitter about it.
- lostmsu 2y ago
  All perspectives are invalid. One has to judge individual points.
- zahlman 2y ago
  > the perspective of someone who published a list of companies to boycott for celebrating Pride Month. To be clear, do you allege that he has done this? While I agree that Mr. Lunduke's content has an admittedly right-wing bias and is certainly not what one would consider "politically correct", nothing I've seen from him seems concordant with that. I would expect that the phrase "celebrating Pride Month" carries quite a bit of weight in such an accusation. > He is the archetypical person that CoCs are intended to exclude and he's extremely bitter about it. He has previously documented himself, as a Jewish man, being quite literally labelled as a Nazi by people who are in positions to enforce CoCs. The reaction seems not exactly unjustified to me. My experience is that the large majority of people "excluded" by CoCs genuinely haven't done anything that ordinary members of the public would consider objectionable.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    > To be clear, do you allege that he has done this? Yes: https://conservativenerds.locals.com/post/4082682/list-of-tech-companies-which-promote-pride https://conservativenerds.locals.com/post/4082682/list-of-te...
cdrini 2y ago
And here's the discussion that seems like potentially the source of a lot of the claims: https://discuss.python.org/t/for-your-consideration-proposed-bylaws-changes-to-improve-our-membership-experience/55696/17 https://discuss.python.org/t/for-your-consideration-proposed... . I wish the suspension notice had linked to the exact cases. One of the good things with open source development is that 90% of communication happens in public; it would be great to link to it. I don't have the time to do a bunch of research, but these three links should be enough for someone to write a good article on this.
- superkuh 2y ago
  It's funny because this is far worse PR than could ever result from "letting" members be people outside of their membership. But I guess the PR they mean here is how corporations perceive them and the results on income, not how human developers who write code perceive them.

by cdrini 2y ago

veltas 2y ago

Looking at the actual announcement made me more annoyed than Lunduke's article did.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

Yeah what kind of adult believes another adult would believe this framing of an event? This is such 10-year-old "Mom, Billy hit me just because I looked at him!" energy.

mcphage 2y ago
“He was banned for a whole bunch of things! Let’s pick out one or two, isn’t this unfair?”

jsheard 2y ago

> This is an interesting story but this article looks really poorly written/biased. Lunduke went off the deep end a while ago, anything he writes about codes of conduct is coming from the perspective of someone who published a list of companies to boycott for celebrating Pride Month. He is the archetypical person that CoCs are intended to exclude and he's extremely bitter about it.

lostmsu 2y ago
All perspectives are invalid. One has to judge individual points.
zahlman 2y ago
> the perspective of someone who published a list of companies to boycott for celebrating Pride Month. To be clear, do you allege that he has done this? While I agree that Mr. Lunduke's content has an admittedly right-wing bias and is certainly not what one would consider "politically correct", nothing I've seen from him seems concordant with that. I would expect that the phrase "celebrating Pride Month" carries quite a bit of weight in such an accusation. > He is the archetypical person that CoCs are intended to exclude and he's extremely bitter about it. He has previously documented himself, as a Jewish man, being quite literally labelled as a Nazi by people who are in positions to enforce CoCs. The reaction seems not exactly unjustified to me. My experience is that the large majority of people "excluded" by CoCs genuinely haven't done anything that ordinary members of the public would consider objectionable.
- jsheard 2y ago
  > To be clear, do you allege that he has done this? Yes: https://conservativenerds.locals.com/post/4082682/list-of-tech-companies-which-promote-pride https://conservativenerds.locals.com/post/4082682/list-of-te...

cdrini 2y ago

And here's the discussion that seems like potentially the source of a lot of the claims: https://discuss.python.org/t/for-your-consideration-proposed-bylaws-changes-to-improve-our-membership-experience/55696/17 https://discuss.python.org/t/for-your-consideration-proposed... . I wish the suspension notice had linked to the exact cases. One of the good things with open source development is that 90% of communication happens in public; it would be great to link to it. I don't have the time to do a bunch of research, but these three links should be enough for someone to write a good article on this.

superkuh 2y ago
It's funny because this is far worse PR than could ever result from "letting" members be people outside of their membership. But I guess the PR they mean here is how corporations perceive them and the results on income, not how human developers who write code perceive them.