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No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few perce
by konschubert 2y ago
No.
With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks.
I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why??
I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad.
Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.
- kleinsch 2y agoYou leave your credit card on the table at a coffee shop. A thief takes it and goes to the grocery store. You’re going to do a chargeback.
- matwood 2y agoFunny aside. Anytime my CC has been stolen the thieves always go grocery shopping first, I assume for alcohol.
- warkdarrior 2y agoIt's the easiest way to test a card, before going to the Apple Store.
- welder 2y agoNobody uses physical cards anymore... even my kids pay with their toy watch when playing restaurant Edit: Tap pay is ubiquitous in the EU
- dkasper 2y agoAbsolutely not true. Some places still don’t even take tap to pay and still use chip.
- abakker 2y agoYes - for example, Home Depot does not take tap payments yet.
- tonyarkles 2y agoThis is something I find so fascinating about the American financial system... Home Depot in Canada has taken tap payments and Apple Pay for a long time now.
- crazygringo 2y agoYeah Home Depot is a bizarre exception, AFAIK they signed a contract with PayPal at some point long ago that prevents them from accepting tap-to-pay. Their checkouts have all the hardware for tap-to-pay, but contractually they can't turn it on. Hopefully that contract ends soon, because wow did they shoot themselves in the foot on that one.
- welder 2y agoHome Depot only exists in the USA. I was talking about EU where tap is everywhere.
- fortran77 2y agoThey're in Canada and Mexico too.
- t0mas88 2y agoIs that in the US? Europe hasn't used the magnetic strip on cards for years. It's all chip based and those payment terminals all take NFC / Apple Pay. It would be suicide for a shop not to take it, I know many people that don't carry their bank card at all. Only their phone for Apple pay.
- konschubert 2y agoYea I’m not proposing to replace low security credit cards with low security debit card this is a silly strawman. EDIT: I see the general problem of origination fraud. But that can be mitigated by imposing limits and requiring extra levels of authentication for bigger payments.
- devman0 2y agoYou said you don't want the ability to do chargebacks, but chargebacks solve two different problems: 1) origination fraud (i.e. someone not you originates a transaction from your account) and 2) merchant fraud (i.e. goods not as described/unsatisfactory/undelivered). It's fine if you say, yeah I can do without #2, but realistically you cannot do without #1 in any digital payment scheme that will have wide acceptance so a chargeback mechanism is required. The only settlement methods we have that do without both protections are cash, cashiers checks, and wires. Setting aside cash the other two are a pain in the ass to originate exactly because they are non reversible.
- konschubert 2y ago1) can also be solved with limits and increasing levels of authentication.
- warkdarrior 2y agoSure, tell me the limit that has no fraud detection, so I know how many card numbers I need to steal.
- konschubert 2y agoWhy do you think a card number would be enough to issue a payment?
- ta_1138 2y agoAnd that becomes industrial, as someone takes 50 thousand cards, and then steals $20 from each. Then the next store takes another $20... Fraud is already a big business, with the current security levels. With worse security? Fraud goes up some more.
- carlosjobim 2y ago> I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? Because you paid with a VISA card instead of paying by cash. Hint: it says Visa on the card.
- konschubert 2y agoWhy are you intentionally missing my point? Are you saying we should somehow all go back to cash and also use cash online?
- oneplane 2y agoWhat he's saying is that you (konschubert) involved VISA in the transaction. And since VISA is a paid service, you were charged. As for why you involved them, that is the actual issue at hand, because it's a choice, not something that was forced upon you. But the choice isn't the first one that comes to mind; the choice was between protecting consumers or protecting corporations. And in the US, corporations are better protected than consumers. To level that protection, you (a consumer) have to involve someone else (a corporation) to gain any practical protection. If that method of protection wasn't needed, you'd be paying using a cheaper (or free) method where you'd be protected differently (i.e. not based on the money going from A to B, but based on the fact that you are a consumer and should thus be protected). You could also go back to the first choice that might come to mind: protection. If you are not in a society that protects consumers directly, but you also don't want to pay a corporate provider for that protection, you could opt to forgo that protection.
- konschubert 2y agoAnd what I (konschubert) am saying is: I would like to have more choices, as a customer and especially as a merchant, so I don’t have to pay visa 3% next time. And I think this means there is opportunity for disruption.
- oneplane 2y agoCreating those choices requires societal adjustment. It is not something that can be manufactured by a market, and as such is the purpose of government. Many examples of this exist in production all over the world, with high degrees of success.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ta_1138 2y agoBecause you don't want someone that steals your credentials to spend large amounts of money in things they ship to themselves, instead of to you!