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But who is to blame? I, the one who has amount x of time and wants to reach the maximum amount of people? Or the browser vendors for just doing the bare minimum

But who is to blame? I, the one who has amount x of time and wants to reach the maximum amount of people? Or the browser vendors for just doing the bare minimum to be compatible with each other but nothing more. The browser vendors do have a lot more manpower (and money) than me…

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
whatshisface 2y ago
Firefox is the libre alternative struggling to compete with the Google behemoth which adds things to its browser even faster than they appear in the standard. Safari is the underfunded child of a corporation as wealthy as Google. It is mainly the first that motivates web developer solidarity.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Its struggling in part because it decided it needed to do a bunch of non browser things.
  - int0x29 2y ago
    Firefox isn't really making enough in donations to maintain a major piece of web infrastructure. So it gets search revenue from Google, which people complain about (and may not be long term sustainable). So they go make other paid for things looking for revenue, which people complain about.
    - cyanydeez 2y ago
      The complaint is about manhours. Maybe the search money dont pay the bills but they definitely squandered their improvements
    - b112 2y ago
      https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4387539/firefox-money-investigating-the-bizarre-finances-of-mozilla https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4387539/firefox-money-invest... It's a little more nuanced than that.
    - einsteinx2 2y ago
      If the user donations aren’t enough, surely their main revenue source—the 100s of millions of dollars they get from Google—is? Or do they need billions just to maintain a competent browser?
immibis 2y ago
Who was to blame for the Internet Explorer monopoly? This is just the same thing again.
quohort 2y ago
How difficult is it to test your site on the 3 major browser engines? I have done some web development before and when I'm on linux, I just test my site with chromium, firefox, and epiphany. I think the onus is on the developer to use standards that are well supported and to try to avoid standards like webUSB that are niche. To use semantic HTML and such so that the website fails in a more useful way to the end user when the standards aren't supported.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > How difficult is it to test your site on the 3 major browser engines? Given that one of those 3 requires sending thousands of dollars a year to Apple, I'd say "very". Also, given that Google is a monopoly, I do place the onus on them to at minimum warn developers that they are deviating from well supported standards.
  - croemer 2y ago
    Mac mini is less than $500. And you can use it for years. Thousands of dollars a year is this around 10 times too high a figure.
    - Arainach 2y ago
      $500 is a lot of money even for a west coast SWE and prohibitive in many areas.
      - croemer 2y ago
        That's true but the comment I replied to talked about thousands/year when in fact it is hundreds/year.
  - edent 2y ago
    Epiphany uses the same rendering engine as Safari. It is FOSS. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Web https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Web
marcosdumay 2y ago
Unless it's due to Firefox not supporting some reasonable standard, it's Google's fault. The only thing one can possibly blame on the developer is the wording.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

whatshisface 2y ago

Firefox is the libre alternative struggling to compete with the Google behemoth which adds things to its browser even faster than they appear in the standard. Safari is the underfunded child of a corporation as wealthy as Google. It is mainly the first that motivates web developer solidarity.

cyanydeez 2y ago
Its struggling in part because it decided it needed to do a bunch of non browser things.
- int0x29 2y ago
  Firefox isn't really making enough in donations to maintain a major piece of web infrastructure. So it gets search revenue from Google, which people complain about (and may not be long term sustainable). So they go make other paid for things looking for revenue, which people complain about.
  - cyanydeez 2y ago
    The complaint is about manhours. Maybe the search money dont pay the bills but they definitely squandered their improvements
  - b112 2y ago
    https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4387539/firefox-money-investigating-the-bizarre-finances-of-mozilla https://lunduke.locals.com/post/4387539/firefox-money-invest... It's a little more nuanced than that.
  - einsteinx2 2y ago
    If the user donations aren’t enough, surely their main revenue source—the 100s of millions of dollars they get from Google—is? Or do they need billions just to maintain a competent browser?

immibis 2y ago

Who was to blame for the Internet Explorer monopoly? This is just the same thing again.

quohort 2y ago

How difficult is it to test your site on the 3 major browser engines? I have done some web development before and when I'm on linux, I just test my site with chromium, firefox, and epiphany. I think the onus is on the developer to use standards that are well supported and to try to avoid standards like webUSB that are niche. To use semantic HTML and such so that the website fails in a more useful way to the end user when the standards aren't supported.

marcosdumay 2y ago
> How difficult is it to test your site on the 3 major browser engines? Given that one of those 3 requires sending thousands of dollars a year to Apple, I'd say "very". Also, given that Google is a monopoly, I do place the onus on them to at minimum warn developers that they are deviating from well supported standards.
- croemer 2y ago
  Mac mini is less than $500. And you can use it for years. Thousands of dollars a year is this around 10 times too high a figure.
  - Arainach 2y ago
    $500 is a lot of money even for a west coast SWE and prohibitive in many areas.
    - croemer 2y ago
      That's true but the comment I replied to talked about thousands/year when in fact it is hundreds/year.
- edent 2y ago
  Epiphany uses the same rendering engine as Safari. It is FOSS. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Web https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Web

marcosdumay 2y ago

Unless it's due to Firefox not supporting some reasonable standard, it's Google's fault. The only thing one can possibly blame on the developer is the wording.