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The problem with online dating sites is that from a financial perspective, their incentive is to keep you from finding someone who causes you to stop using the

The problem with online dating sites is that from a financial perspective, their incentive is to keep you from finding someone who causes you to stop using the site. Every single A/B test and algo run with revenue or engagement as the metric to be optimized is actually doing the opposite of what users want and preventing really good matchups.

nkrisc 2y ago
I don’t think there’s really a good model. If the app charges when a match is made, the consumer is paying without really knowing of the match is good. As I understand, this is the model early dating sites used. If the app charges for access at all, then it’s incentivized to keep you from finding a match, and the overall pool of people shrinks from the barrier to entry. Charging once you’re satisfied with a match isn’t practical without some kind of binding contract, which I imagine most people will not want to sign. It’s almost as if you can’t commoditize emergent social behavior.
- derbOac 2y ago
  I've sometimes wondered if dating apps are best served through some kind of nonprofit decentralized format, maybe something grassroots, or through the government or something, precisely because of the issues you raise. I admit that might sound a little loony but dating or pairing is a fundamental human activity, and it doesn't seem too farfetched to me to think that people might build out something outside of a profit model. Also, some countries are starting to openly discuss declining birth rates, with government actively encouraging mating, so I could see something like that being developed in certain settings. I also have a hunch, though, that some of what makes relationships click is hard to formalize in an app focused on dating per se. In person chemistry, development of an initial relationship without an explicit shared dating goal, and so forth. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better to just incorporate dating options and features into a more general purpose social app.
blfr 2y ago
How does that work? I keep hearing this objection but how is the app supposedly stopping you from forming a happy relationship? Operator would need to know who is a good matchup for you and then not present you that person but present you enough other subjectively attractive (but again somehow not good) matches so that you keep swiping. That's almost omniscience when it comes to dating which they would need to attain from a phone number, pic, couple of sentences, and maybe whatever they can buy via adtech.
- brigadier132 2y ago
  > I keep hearing this objection but how is the app supposedly stopping you from forming a happy relationship? Most of these apps use ab testing to determine what features are launched. The speculation is that they optimize for retention and conversion into paying users, not for forming long lasting relationships. Retaining users is good for a business but terrible for people trying to form long term relationships. It's pure speculation that this is what they are optimizing for in their experiments but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the case.
  - mattmaroon 2y ago
    I think it’s much simpler: must relationships don’t end in forever monogamy. There’s like a 90% chance someone who leaves the dating pool will re-enter it eventually. They don’t really need any algorithmic matching magic. Also, the pool of people online dating is going to be somewhat (perhaps heavily) sample biased. People who are likely to form long term relationships will, over time, leave the dating pool at a higher rate than those who aren’t. By the time you hit age 35, you find the dating pool to be mostly people who haven’t permanently paired off for very obvious reasons (myself included, btw). So overall, I just don’t think they worry at all about people leaving the dating pool. I do think their incentive structure is broken and that plus the fact that they are all owned by two companies (and even one of them, Bumble, doesn’t just buy up all the competition) does prevent them from making the metric about user satisfaction though. I just don’t think it’s broken for this reason.
- k__ 2y ago
  Also, it doesn't make much sense on platforms like Tinder, where the majority of users does short term hook-ups all the time. Even if they meet someone there, they will come back to meet more.
naveen99 2y ago
In the limit, for every person who dies, you do get approximately 1 new person of dating age every year. It’s not like ob gyn’s try to prevent the baby coming out to keep their pregnant customer.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
And the problem with dentistry is that not every one of my teeth needs an expensive root canal or crown. But the logical consistency of a hypothetical conspiracy isn't evidence of its existence. It's just paranoia and virtue signaled cynicism.

nkrisc 2y ago

I don’t think there’s really a good model. If the app charges when a match is made, the consumer is paying without really knowing of the match is good. As I understand, this is the model early dating sites used. If the app charges for access at all, then it’s incentivized to keep you from finding a match, and the overall pool of people shrinks from the barrier to entry. Charging once you’re satisfied with a match isn’t practical without some kind of binding contract, which I imagine most people will not want to sign. It’s almost as if you can’t commoditize emergent social behavior.

derbOac 2y ago
I've sometimes wondered if dating apps are best served through some kind of nonprofit decentralized format, maybe something grassroots, or through the government or something, precisely because of the issues you raise. I admit that might sound a little loony but dating or pairing is a fundamental human activity, and it doesn't seem too farfetched to me to think that people might build out something outside of a profit model. Also, some countries are starting to openly discuss declining birth rates, with government actively encouraging mating, so I could see something like that being developed in certain settings. I also have a hunch, though, that some of what makes relationships click is hard to formalize in an app focused on dating per se. In person chemistry, development of an initial relationship without an explicit shared dating goal, and so forth. Sometimes I wonder if it would be better to just incorporate dating options and features into a more general purpose social app.

blfr 2y ago

How does that work? I keep hearing this objection but how is the app supposedly stopping you from forming a happy relationship? Operator would need to know who is a good matchup for you and then not present you that person but present you enough other subjectively attractive (but again somehow not good) matches so that you keep swiping. That's almost omniscience when it comes to dating which they would need to attain from a phone number, pic, couple of sentences, and maybe whatever they can buy via adtech.

brigadier132 2y ago
> I keep hearing this objection but how is the app supposedly stopping you from forming a happy relationship? Most of these apps use ab testing to determine what features are launched. The speculation is that they optimize for retention and conversion into paying users, not for forming long lasting relationships. Retaining users is good for a business but terrible for people trying to form long term relationships. It's pure speculation that this is what they are optimizing for in their experiments but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the case.
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  I think it’s much simpler: must relationships don’t end in forever monogamy. There’s like a 90% chance someone who leaves the dating pool will re-enter it eventually. They don’t really need any algorithmic matching magic. Also, the pool of people online dating is going to be somewhat (perhaps heavily) sample biased. People who are likely to form long term relationships will, over time, leave the dating pool at a higher rate than those who aren’t. By the time you hit age 35, you find the dating pool to be mostly people who haven’t permanently paired off for very obvious reasons (myself included, btw). So overall, I just don’t think they worry at all about people leaving the dating pool. I do think their incentive structure is broken and that plus the fact that they are all owned by two companies (and even one of them, Bumble, doesn’t just buy up all the competition) does prevent them from making the metric about user satisfaction though. I just don’t think it’s broken for this reason.
k__ 2y ago
Also, it doesn't make much sense on platforms like Tinder, where the majority of users does short term hook-ups all the time. Even if they meet someone there, they will come back to meet more.

naveen99 2y ago

In the limit, for every person who dies, you do get approximately 1 new person of dating age every year. It’s not like ob gyn’s try to prevent the baby coming out to keep their pregnant customer.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

And the problem with dentistry is that not every one of my teeth needs an expensive root canal or crown. But the logical consistency of a hypothetical conspiracy isn't evidence of its existence. It's just paranoia and virtue signaled cynicism.