4 ms·

>> You'd only see Macs in professional sound, video, graphic design and publishing houses... > It was that way in the US too until the iPod and then iPhone to

by tivert 2y ago

>> You'd only see Macs in professional sound, video, graphic design and publishing houses... > It was that way in the US too until the iPod and then iPhone took off and MacOS X became viable. No. As someone who had experience with existing in the 90s, I can say you're dead wrong. Like I don't even know where to start. Macs weren't as popular as PCs, but you'd see them all over in the consumer space: You'd see Macs in department store computer displays (Best Buy, Sam's Club, Officemax, etc.). The iMac was released in 1998 (and was so influential you had PC makers copying its style). That was the real beginning of Apple's turnaround. The iPod wasn't released in 2001, and was pretty niche for a long time. Several families I know had Macs as their family computer during the 90s (including my own).

Sakos 2y ago
Growing up, I didn't know a single person personally who owned a Mac. I only knew Macs from schools and the handful of teachers I knew who'd bought the new PowerBooks ca 2002. I also had experience existing in the 90s. They were extremely niche. And going into the 2000s, I knew plenty of people with an iPod, but no Mac.
- everfrustrated 2y ago
  >And going into the 2000s, I knew plenty of people with an iPod, but no Mac. Which took some doing as iPods were all Firewire up until ~2004 when Apple transitioned to USB. Firewire was pretty unusual in the PC ecosystem - usually requiring purchasing a PCI card.
  - Sakos 2y ago
    First gen version also didn't have Windows software. I'm thinking more once they were convenient for PC users to use, I guess 2005 onwards? I don't think I saw any iPods before then.
samatman 2y ago
> I can say you're dead wrong. Like I don't even know where to start. This kind of aggressive riposte is never called for. It's true that the Bondi Blue iMac arrived three years before the iPod, and was influential. It bought Apple some breathing room, and took it off life support. A success by any measure. It's also true that prior to this, and for a considerable time after, Macs were largely found in exactly the niches described by the post you're responding to. I would add education as well, as did, let's note, the directly parent post to your own. Sure, you'd find them in other places, like <checks notes> less than 5% of household computers, including your household it turns out. I can see why that would distort your impression of its ubiquity. The iPod was an immediate sensation. It didn't start to sell in numbers for a few years, but everyone knew what it was (speaking from the US perspective) and craved it. There's no question in my mind that it was the touchstone product which gave life to the entire company, and the halo effect it produced gave a crucial leg up to the iPhone, which is what made Apple the multi-trillion-dollar company it is today. Leaving off a few details and compressing a timeline doesn't make someone wrong, let alone 'dead wrong'.
- AlbertCory 2y ago
  The iPod was so much later than the period of Borland and Turbo Pascal that it's not even relevant to this discussion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod
  - anthk 2y ago
    This. In Europe, Macs were for people around arts, printed press, audio/video and such. CMYK people. For genZers, think about THE platform to run Adobe software fast and reliabily + audio tools. These people must be either young or delusional. No one used Macs at home. Even under Mac OSX for Power PC, if you weren't a media producer, your interest in Macs was zero.
  - samatman 2y ago
    > it's not even relevant to this discussion I suppose it's possible to think that, if you jump straight from the title of the Fine Article to my post, without reading the thread which leads to it. Is that what happened here?
AlbertCory 2y ago
3Com made an Ethernet card for the Mac in the late 80's. 3+File/Print/Share existed for the Mac as well. I knew people who worked on it. Claris Software was initially an independent company selling software for the Mac. PowerPoint was initially Mac-only (1987). It got bought by Microsoft so they could port it to Windows. So yeah, Macs were around, but hardly ubiquitous.
- tivert 2y ago
  > So yeah, Macs were around, but hardly ubiquitous. And I'm not claiming they were ubiquitous, just that they weren't so niche you'd only see them in schools or on the desk of a graphic designer. They had something like a 5-10% market-share in the US. Anecdotally, that played out in my community as far as I can tell (e.g. 1 in 20 kids having a Mac at home sounds about right). You didn't have to go anywhere special to buy them, but the store might have 20-30 PC models on display with 2-3 Macs.
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    yeah. 5-10% sounds about right.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  Claris was originally spun out from Apple so that MacWrite/MacDraw etc would not be seen as competing with third-party developers with an unfair first-party advantage.

by tivert 2y ago

Sakos 2y ago

Growing up, I didn't know a single person personally who owned a Mac. I only knew Macs from schools and the handful of teachers I knew who'd bought the new PowerBooks ca 2002. I also had experience existing in the 90s. They were extremely niche. And going into the 2000s, I knew plenty of people with an iPod, but no Mac.

everfrustrated 2y ago
>And going into the 2000s, I knew plenty of people with an iPod, but no Mac. Which took some doing as iPods were all Firewire up until ~2004 when Apple transitioned to USB. Firewire was pretty unusual in the PC ecosystem - usually requiring purchasing a PCI card.
- Sakos 2y ago
  First gen version also didn't have Windows software. I'm thinking more once they were convenient for PC users to use, I guess 2005 onwards? I don't think I saw any iPods before then.

samatman 2y ago

> I can say you're dead wrong. Like I don't even know where to start. This kind of aggressive riposte is never called for. It's true that the Bondi Blue iMac arrived three years before the iPod, and was influential. It bought Apple some breathing room, and took it off life support. A success by any measure. It's also true that prior to this, and for a considerable time after, Macs were largely found in exactly the niches described by the post you're responding to. I would add education as well, as did, let's note, the directly parent post to your own. Sure, you'd find them in other places, like <checks notes> less than 5% of household computers, including your household it turns out. I can see why that would distort your impression of its ubiquity. The iPod was an immediate sensation. It didn't start to sell in numbers for a few years, but everyone knew what it was (speaking from the US perspective) and craved it. There's no question in my mind that it was the touchstone product which gave life to the entire company, and the halo effect it produced gave a crucial leg up to the iPhone, which is what made Apple the multi-trillion-dollar company it is today. Leaving off a few details and compressing a timeline doesn't make someone wrong, let alone 'dead wrong'.

AlbertCory 2y ago
The iPod was so much later than the period of Borland and Turbo Pascal that it's not even relevant to this discussion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod
- anthk 2y ago
  This. In Europe, Macs were for people around arts, printed press, audio/video and such. CMYK people. For genZers, think about THE platform to run Adobe software fast and reliabily + audio tools. These people must be either young or delusional. No one used Macs at home. Even under Mac OSX for Power PC, if you weren't a media producer, your interest in Macs was zero.
- samatman 2y ago
  > it's not even relevant to this discussion I suppose it's possible to think that, if you jump straight from the title of the Fine Article to my post, without reading the thread which leads to it. Is that what happened here?

AlbertCory 2y ago

3Com made an Ethernet card for the Mac in the late 80's. 3+File/Print/Share existed for the Mac as well. I knew people who worked on it. Claris Software was initially an independent company selling software for the Mac. PowerPoint was initially Mac-only (1987). It got bought by Microsoft so they could port it to Windows. So yeah, Macs were around, but hardly ubiquitous.

tivert 2y ago
> So yeah, Macs were around, but hardly ubiquitous. And I'm not claiming they were ubiquitous, just that they weren't so niche you'd only see them in schools or on the desk of a graphic designer. They had something like a 5-10% market-share in the US. Anecdotally, that played out in my community as far as I can tell (e.g. 1 in 20 kids having a Mac at home sounds about right). You didn't have to go anywhere special to buy them, but the store might have 20-30 PC models on display with 2-3 Macs.
- AlbertCory 2y ago
  yeah. 5-10% sounds about right.
kalleboo 2y ago
Claris was originally spun out from Apple so that MacWrite/MacDraw etc would not be seen as competing with third-party developers with an unfair first-party advantage.