4 ms·

As much as this has the vibes of a classic OSS rug pull, as a Cockroach user, I don’t really take it that way. First of all, it was already not open source and

As much as this has the vibes of a classic OSS rug pull, as a Cockroach user, I don’t really take it that way. First of all, it was already not open source and secondly, the free to use version was missing key features like follower reads and incremental backups.

api 2y ago
Someone creating free software and changing the license on software they created isn't a "rug pull" in any sense of the word. You paid $0 and contributed nothing. What rug is being pulled? A rug pull is when you buy into something and then it's taken away, like when a cryptocurrency token is busted out or you spend money on something and then it's cancelled or nerfed. Don't like it? Write your own distributed fault tolerant database, or contribute an extension for Raft replication to the Postgres open source code base.
- warvariuc 2y ago
  > You paid $0 and contributed nothing I think investing into integrating a tool into your infrastructure is not exactly "paying $0".
  - ted_dunning 2y ago
    From the standpoint of the people paying the developers of said software, it is exactly like paying $0.
    - tsimionescu 2y ago
      No, it's not. If they're planning a rug pull, they very much care that you took effort to integrate their free offering into your infrastructure, because they care that you're sitting firmly on the rug before they can pull it.
  - api 2y ago
    If you make software and I start using it, I’ve created an obligation for you to keep making it?
- d_watt 2y ago
  I see the issue with these more as if you are paying for it, one of the decision factors to buy it might have been that you have the opportunity to go to an open source version if the relationship gets bad. Sole source vendors are really risky, so open source gives a little control back to the buyer that the vendor won't lock them in then screw them later (oracle). So now if you're paying for Cockroach, you're effectively on proprietary technology with no negotiating levers.
  - api 2y ago
    It’s Postgres compatible. If you only use standard features your negotiating lever is to bail for another Postgres compatible database. There are tons of managed offerings that are quick to stand up. This is why standard APIs, protocols, and languages are a more important thing than specific pieces of software. If there is compatibility you have choice.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ensignavenger 2y ago
  It is described as a rugpull because of the marketing around it being open source. Coackroach however was never open source, it was BSL licensed. This change does appear to mean that old versions will no longer eventually convert to open source, though. Thus it would be up to the the BSL promoters and marketers to decide whether or not this is a rugpull. As an open source user and proponent, I don't really care.
  - eatonphil 2y ago
    > Coackroach however was never open source, it was BSL licensed. It used to be Apache2. :) Their blog post announcing this in 2019 happens to now 404: https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroachdb/ https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroach... But see also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40058332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40058332.
    - ensignavenger 2y ago
      My bad, I was wrong then. They even still falsely claim on github that it is open source, too (thanks to another commenter for pointing that out.).
    - ezekg 2y ago
      Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20190604173131/https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroachdb/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190604173131/https://www.cockr...
    - wging 2y ago
      Really does appear to be memory-holed, rather than just having moved. Not a good look. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acockroachlabs.com+"CockroachDB+was+conceived+of+as+open+source+software https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acockroachlabs.com+"Co...."
  - john-flu-fix 2y ago
    Cockroach hasn’t marketed itself as open source for years
- theamk 2y ago
  CockroachDB raised >$500M in funding, and a big reason for this was it's high number of users. That high number would be a lot lower if it wasn't a free software.
- _xiaz 2y ago
  The rug where my contributions sit on. That rug. And as you're surely aware, competent OSS contribution is worth thousands

api 2y ago

Someone creating free software and changing the license on software they created isn't a "rug pull" in any sense of the word. You paid $0 and contributed nothing. What rug is being pulled? A rug pull is when you buy into something and then it's taken away, like when a cryptocurrency token is busted out or you spend money on something and then it's cancelled or nerfed. Don't like it? Write your own distributed fault tolerant database, or contribute an extension for Raft replication to the Postgres open source code base.

warvariuc 2y ago
> You paid $0 and contributed nothing I think investing into integrating a tool into your infrastructure is not exactly "paying $0".
- ted_dunning 2y ago
  From the standpoint of the people paying the developers of said software, it is exactly like paying $0.
  - tsimionescu 2y ago
    No, it's not. If they're planning a rug pull, they very much care that you took effort to integrate their free offering into your infrastructure, because they care that you're sitting firmly on the rug before they can pull it.
- api 2y ago
  If you make software and I start using it, I’ve created an obligation for you to keep making it?
d_watt 2y ago
I see the issue with these more as if you are paying for it, one of the decision factors to buy it might have been that you have the opportunity to go to an open source version if the relationship gets bad. Sole source vendors are really risky, so open source gives a little control back to the buyer that the vendor won't lock them in then screw them later (oracle). So now if you're paying for Cockroach, you're effectively on proprietary technology with no negotiating levers.
- api 2y ago
  It’s Postgres compatible. If you only use standard features your negotiating lever is to bail for another Postgres compatible database. There are tons of managed offerings that are quick to stand up. This is why standard APIs, protocols, and languages are a more important thing than specific pieces of software. If there is compatibility you have choice.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ensignavenger 2y ago
It is described as a rugpull because of the marketing around it being open source. Coackroach however was never open source, it was BSL licensed. This change does appear to mean that old versions will no longer eventually convert to open source, though. Thus it would be up to the the BSL promoters and marketers to decide whether or not this is a rugpull. As an open source user and proponent, I don't really care.
- eatonphil 2y ago
  > Coackroach however was never open source, it was BSL licensed. It used to be Apache2. :) Their blog post announcing this in 2019 happens to now 404: https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroachdb/ https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroach... But see also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40058332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40058332.
  - ensignavenger 2y ago
    My bad, I was wrong then. They even still falsely claim on github that it is open source, too (thanks to another commenter for pointing that out.).
  - ezekg 2y ago
    Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20190604173131/https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroachdb/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190604173131/https://www.cockr...
  - wging 2y ago
    Really does appear to be memory-holed, rather than just having moved. Not a good look. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acockroachlabs.com+"CockroachDB+was+conceived+of+as+open+source+software https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acockroachlabs.com+"Co...."
- john-flu-fix 2y ago
  Cockroach hasn’t marketed itself as open source for years
theamk 2y ago
CockroachDB raised >$500M in funding, and a big reason for this was it's high number of users. That high number would be a lot lower if it wasn't a free software.
_xiaz 2y ago
The rug where my contributions sit on. That rug. And as you're surely aware, competent OSS contribution is worth thousands