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Just following this thought then the remedy will be forcing Apple to allow alternative OS and firmware on their devices, allowing consumers to choose what they

by isodev 2y ago

Just following this thought then the remedy will be forcing Apple to allow alternative OS and firmware on their devices, allowing consumers to choose what they do with the device hardware they purchased?

ineedaj0b 2y ago
No, it would be buying an android phone
- isodev 2y ago
  Buying a phone from another vendor is only viable if Apple/Google didn't try to lock you in. Of course we know that's not true - you can't just go elsewhere and that's by design.
mouse_ 2y ago
Ownership and security are at odds. The only remedy would be forcing Apple to allow the owner of the device to run whatever they would like on it, unfortunately this does include malware.
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  This is a false dilemma thought. The secure solution is to treat every app as malicious and put it in a sandbox where it can not cause harm. See also Android and ChromeOS.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    In the broadest sense, an app that "can not cause harm" can't do anything useful. To the industry's dominant players, "causing harm" means empowering the user to venture outside their walled gardens... or even to see outside them. So, no, sandboxing everything in sight isn't a useful solution. Your sandbox will just imprison us all.
brookst 2y ago
I’m not a subscriber to the “if I choose to buy a product, I get to dictate product design decisions for the company” school of thought. Buy it or don’t. If you want X there is no right do demand Y turn into X.
- diffeomorphism 2y ago
  "buy it or don't" does not work with oligopolies. If you had a free market, I would agree, but you very much don't in this case.
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > "buy it or don't" does not work with oligopolies. If you had a free market, I would agree, but you very much don't in this case. Why do you believe there is no free market on mobile phones? I mean, what exactly forces you to pick an iPhone over anything?
    - antihipocrat 2y ago
      That's not quite what the parent meant. There is a choice between very few phone manufacturers, and even less mobile operating systems. Don't want to sign up to one multinational behemoth? Well, your choice is to sign up to one other multinational behemoth.
      - chipdart 2y ago
        > There is a choice between very few phone manufacturers, and even less mobile operating systems. I don't think that the manufacturer assertion is true at all. You can go to any random online store and get dozens of brands and manufacturers. It just so happens that popular demand focuses only on a hand full of manufacturers who are outcompeting everyone in the free market. Take a look even to Android's market share. You have four manufacturers with double digit market shares, and a couple of dozen entriee. Is that what you call a monopoly? https://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-manufacturers https://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-manufacturers The OS comment is even more badfling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_operating...
wil421 2y ago
Why should they have to allow it? My smart TVs and video game consoles never allowed it, except that short lived Linux PlayStation. Nintendo is pretty hostile about reverse engineering the switch.
- Cyph0n 2y ago
  But those are gaming and entertainment devices, not general-purpose computing devices that everyone relies on for day-to-day work and life. A good way to think about it is this: if Windows was as closed down as iOS, and took a 30% cut on every application purchase, would regulators have intervened?
  - labcomputer 2y ago
    What physical attributes make them not general purpose computers?
    - Cyph0n 2y ago
      What physical attributes make a smart fridge not a general purpose computer? Or a car’s infotainment system? Or a Bluray disc player?
- skeaker 2y ago
  Those should allow it too. Them setting a bad precedent doesn't mean we should continue to abide by it, just that there's more work to be done undoing it.
amatheus 2y ago
I think that would be the right decision, to me that makes more sense than forcing Apple to allow any app to be installed on iOS or allowing alternate stores.

by isodev 2y ago

ineedaj0b 2y ago

No, it would be buying an android phone

isodev 2y ago
Buying a phone from another vendor is only viable if Apple/Google didn't try to lock you in. Of course we know that's not true - you can't just go elsewhere and that's by design.

mouse_ 2y ago

Ownership and security are at odds. The only remedy would be forcing Apple to allow the owner of the device to run whatever they would like on it, unfortunately this does include malware.

nolist_policy 2y ago
This is a false dilemma thought. The secure solution is to treat every app as malicious and put it in a sandbox where it can not cause harm. See also Android and ChromeOS.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  In the broadest sense, an app that "can not cause harm" can't do anything useful. To the industry's dominant players, "causing harm" means empowering the user to venture outside their walled gardens... or even to see outside them. So, no, sandboxing everything in sight isn't a useful solution. Your sandbox will just imprison us all.

brookst 2y ago

I’m not a subscriber to the “if I choose to buy a product, I get to dictate product design decisions for the company” school of thought. Buy it or don’t. If you want X there is no right do demand Y turn into X.

diffeomorphism 2y ago
"buy it or don't" does not work with oligopolies. If you had a free market, I would agree, but you very much don't in this case.
- chipdart 2y ago
  > "buy it or don't" does not work with oligopolies. If you had a free market, I would agree, but you very much don't in this case. Why do you believe there is no free market on mobile phones? I mean, what exactly forces you to pick an iPhone over anything?
  - antihipocrat 2y ago
    That's not quite what the parent meant. There is a choice between very few phone manufacturers, and even less mobile operating systems. Don't want to sign up to one multinational behemoth? Well, your choice is to sign up to one other multinational behemoth.
    - chipdart 2y ago
      > There is a choice between very few phone manufacturers, and even less mobile operating systems. I don't think that the manufacturer assertion is true at all. You can go to any random online store and get dozens of brands and manufacturers. It just so happens that popular demand focuses only on a hand full of manufacturers who are outcompeting everyone in the free market. Take a look even to Android's market share. You have four manufacturers with double digit market shares, and a couple of dozen entriee. Is that what you call a monopoly? https://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-manufacturers https://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-manufacturers The OS comment is even more badfling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_operating...

wil421 2y ago

Why should they have to allow it? My smart TVs and video game consoles never allowed it, except that short lived Linux PlayStation. Nintendo is pretty hostile about reverse engineering the switch.

Cyph0n 2y ago
But those are gaming and entertainment devices, not general-purpose computing devices that everyone relies on for day-to-day work and life. A good way to think about it is this: if Windows was as closed down as iOS, and took a 30% cut on every application purchase, would regulators have intervened?
- labcomputer 2y ago
  What physical attributes make them not general purpose computers?
  - Cyph0n 2y ago
    What physical attributes make a smart fridge not a general purpose computer? Or a car’s infotainment system? Or a Bluray disc player?
skeaker 2y ago
Those should allow it too. Them setting a bad precedent doesn't mean we should continue to abide by it, just that there's more work to be done undoing it.

amatheus 2y ago

I think that would be the right decision, to me that makes more sense than forcing Apple to allow any app to be installed on iOS or allowing alternate stores.