4 ms·

AltStore PAL receives Epic Games MegaGrant, will no longer require subscription

92 points by tech234a 2y ago

Alifatisk 2y ago
This is so cool, I can still remember the days where I installed Antutu and altstore for getting some apps for free. And now, I can actually download AltStore as an official third-part store without worrying about apps getting revoked again.
- layer8 2y ago
  Apple still has to review and approve each single app update [0], and apps invariably tend to need updating sooner or later for new iOS versions. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/117767#:~:text=All%20apps%20available%20through%20alternative,and%20to%20maintain%20device%20integrity https://support.apple.com/en-us/117767#:~:text=All%20apps%20....
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    > Apple does not enforce the App Store's high standards for business practices and content on apps distributed through alternative app distribution. I guess we'll see how well this ages. I just know some 18+ store is going to release within 12 months and that will truly test if Apple is just "testing for security" or not. I suppose EGS and assumedly Fortnite got approved, so that was the other hoop I worried about. This can still potentially mean issues for stuff like Beeper and iSH style apps , though.
  - sebazzz 2y ago
    If Apple still has to review everything, why would one publish on an altstore anyway? You aren’t cheaper (still need to pay that $90 per year) and you severely limit your audience.
    - ripply 2y ago
      They publish there because they aren't allowed to publish their app on the app store, which is the whole point of the legislation that precipitated this.
    - whazor 2y ago
      There are now some torrent apps in the Altstore that are not allowed in the Apple app store. So the Apple review is more limited.
post_break 2y ago
The core technology fee is just so ridiculous. I'm glad it's being funded, but the fact that it exists angers me.
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  It, among other things, is being investigated by the EC. I wouldn't expect it to be deemed acceptable under the spirit of the DMA, it's just Apple throwing a fit and making their compliance as painful and slow as possible, perhaps in the hope that sentiment towards the new rules will grow sour before they actually have to open their platform.
- deergomoo 2y ago
  Apple is setting fire to so much developer good will. Surely the need to purchase a Mac per developer, multiple iOS devices for testing, and the $99/year for a developer account is enough of a fee already paid to access that "core technology". I can't help but wonder how many developers are now considering whether iOS support for PWAs is good enough to sidestep this crap entirely. Tim Cook really needs to learn the definition of the word "symbiosis", because a smartphone with no third-party software is barely worth anything.
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    It's no surprise that Apple tries to grift developers by creatively redefining the scope of what the developer fees actually get you. Coming up with the slimiest ways to extract money is the core of their DNA. I expect that in a few years they'll say that their "Core technology fee" doesn't actually cover the full development experience, only the "core" of their technology, i.e. the compiler, while device-specific frameworks/libraries ought to cost extra for the relationship to be "fair". As you say, Apple have forgotten how their relationship with 3rd party developers really works. They owe their success in the mobile space to them, yet they're so quick to brush them off and have the nerve to say that actually, developers should be paying them for the privilege - it's disturbing.
  - cmeacham98 2y ago
    Are they though? I haven't seen any evidence to suggest significant migration away from the iOS App Store. I was under the impression that devs and consumers that cared about side-loading largely already self-selected to Android.
thefounder 2y ago
The issue is the “core technology fee”. There shouldn’t be any OS fee to install apps on your device. This became beyond ridiculous. A kind of “black mirror” episode,
- volleygman180 2y ago
  Sounds like it's a game of CTF and we know who's winning :(
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  I think they should add a core technology fee to use the Mac and safari as well. All the fanboys on hn would disappear.
- miki123211 2y ago
  The fee isn't for installing the app, it's for using Xcode, Apple's SDKs and their notarization infrastructure. There's no fee to install apps on your device, it's the developer that gets charged, not the user.
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    In that case what is the $99/year developer fee for? > Join the Apple Developer Program to reach customers around the world on the App Store for all Apple platforms. Membership provides the tools, resources, and support you need to develop and distribute apps and games, including access to app services, testing tools, app analytics, and more. List of tools that this subscription supposedly covers: https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/ https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/
  - SSLy 2y ago
    it'd be true if it was also levied for macOS app installs. alas, it's a marketing lie, the CTF is just a emotional outburst aimed at punishing Europeans.
  - layer8 2y ago
    That doesn't explain why the fee is per user install. That's just rent-seeking.
mrkramer 2y ago
Monopoly sucks, Apple is the living proof.
RockRobotRock 2y ago
So fucking funny, what a middle finger to Apple. I hope they succeed.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
solarkraft 2y ago
I’ve been waiting for somebody to sue over notarization (the reason I STILL can’t install the Pebble app) and my biggest hope was on AltStore. This type of support gives me hope that something is going to happen in this area. Thanks to Riley for putting so much effort into this and thanks to Epic for accidentally being on the side of user freedom :-)
solarkraft 2y ago
Of course I’m excited, but on further thought I wonder whether this could be set up better. As far as I understand it a MegaGrant is just a bunch of money, which AltStore can freely use and they decided to use it to cover Apple’s excessive fee. Had Epic pledged to pay the fee, they would have had a good reason to fight it (which, as far as I understand, they want to anyway). I’m still waiting for legal exchanges over both notarization and the fee.

92 points by tech234a 2y ago

This is so cool, I can still remember the days where I installed Antutu and altstore for getting some apps for free. And now, I can actually download AltStore as an official third-part store without worrying about apps getting revoked again.

layer8 2y ago
Apple still has to review and approve each single app update [0], and apps invariably tend to need updating sooner or later for new iOS versions. [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/117767#:~:text=All%20apps%20available%20through%20alternative,and%20to%20maintain%20device%20integrity https://support.apple.com/en-us/117767#:~:text=All%20apps%20....
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  > Apple does not enforce the App Store's high standards for business practices and content on apps distributed through alternative app distribution. I guess we'll see how well this ages. I just know some 18+ store is going to release within 12 months and that will truly test if Apple is just "testing for security" or not. I suppose EGS and assumedly Fortnite got approved, so that was the other hoop I worried about. This can still potentially mean issues for stuff like Beeper and iSH style apps , though.
- sebazzz 2y ago
  If Apple still has to review everything, why would one publish on an altstore anyway? You aren’t cheaper (still need to pay that $90 per year) and you severely limit your audience.
  - ripply 2y ago
    They publish there because they aren't allowed to publish their app on the app store, which is the whole point of the legislation that precipitated this.
  - whazor 2y ago
    There are now some torrent apps in the Altstore that are not allowed in the Apple app store. So the Apple review is more limited.

post_break 2y ago

The core technology fee is just so ridiculous. I'm glad it's being funded, but the fact that it exists angers me.

idle_zealot 2y ago
It, among other things, is being investigated by the EC. I wouldn't expect it to be deemed acceptable under the spirit of the DMA, it's just Apple throwing a fit and making their compliance as painful and slow as possible, perhaps in the hope that sentiment towards the new rules will grow sour before they actually have to open their platform.
deergomoo 2y ago
Apple is setting fire to so much developer good will. Surely the need to purchase a Mac per developer, multiple iOS devices for testing, and the $99/year for a developer account is enough of a fee already paid to access that "core technology". I can't help but wonder how many developers are now considering whether iOS support for PWAs is good enough to sidestep this crap entirely. Tim Cook really needs to learn the definition of the word "symbiosis", because a smartphone with no third-party software is barely worth anything.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  It's no surprise that Apple tries to grift developers by creatively redefining the scope of what the developer fees actually get you. Coming up with the slimiest ways to extract money is the core of their DNA. I expect that in a few years they'll say that their "Core technology fee" doesn't actually cover the full development experience, only the "core" of their technology, i.e. the compiler, while device-specific frameworks/libraries ought to cost extra for the relationship to be "fair". As you say, Apple have forgotten how their relationship with 3rd party developers really works. They owe their success in the mobile space to them, yet they're so quick to brush them off and have the nerve to say that actually, developers should be paying them for the privilege - it's disturbing.
- cmeacham98 2y ago
  Are they though? I haven't seen any evidence to suggest significant migration away from the iOS App Store. I was under the impression that devs and consumers that cared about side-loading largely already self-selected to Android.

thefounder 2y ago

The issue is the “core technology fee”. There shouldn’t be any OS fee to install apps on your device. This became beyond ridiculous. A kind of “black mirror” episode,

volleygman180 2y ago
Sounds like it's a game of CTF and we know who's winning :(
throwaway48476 2y ago
I think they should add a core technology fee to use the Mac and safari as well. All the fanboys on hn would disappear.
miki123211 2y ago
The fee isn't for installing the app, it's for using Xcode, Apple's SDKs and their notarization infrastructure. There's no fee to install apps on your device, it's the developer that gets charged, not the user.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  In that case what is the $99/year developer fee for? > Join the Apple Developer Program to reach customers around the world on the App Store for all Apple platforms. Membership provides the tools, resources, and support you need to develop and distribute apps and games, including access to app services, testing tools, app analytics, and more. List of tools that this subscription supposedly covers: https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/ https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/
- SSLy 2y ago
  it'd be true if it was also levied for macOS app installs. alas, it's a marketing lie, the CTF is just a emotional outburst aimed at punishing Europeans.
- layer8 2y ago
  That doesn't explain why the fee is per user install. That's just rent-seeking.

mrkramer 2y ago

Monopoly sucks, Apple is the living proof.

RockRobotRock 2y ago

So fucking funny, what a middle finger to Apple. I hope they succeed.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

solarkraft 2y ago

I’ve been waiting for somebody to sue over notarization (the reason I STILL can’t install the Pebble app) and my biggest hope was on AltStore. This type of support gives me hope that something is going to happen in this area. Thanks to Riley for putting so much effort into this and thanks to Epic for accidentally being on the side of user freedom :-)

solarkraft 2y ago

Of course I’m excited, but on further thought I wonder whether this could be set up better. As far as I understand it a MegaGrant is just a bunch of money, which AltStore can freely use and they decided to use it to cover Apple’s excessive fee. Had Epic pledged to pay the fee, they would have had a good reason to fight it (which, as far as I understand, they want to anyway). I’m still waiting for legal exchanges over both notarization and the fee.