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Keep in mind that the FDA defines serving size: The term serving or serving size means an amount of food customarily consumed per eating occasion by persons 4

Keep in mind that the FDA defines serving size: The term serving or serving size means an amount of food customarily consumed per eating occasion by persons 4 years of age or older which is expressed in a common household measure that is appropriate to the food. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-101#101.9 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-I/subchapter-B... This means manufacturer's are free to make serving sizes based on how little a hypothetical four year old child might eat in theory. There aren't any substantial penalties for inaccuracy. There can be substantial incentives for optimistic labeling.

voidUpdate 2y ago
Reminds me of the Vihart video about serving sizes in soup https://youtu.be/mxNPpte_6m4 https://youtu.be/mxNPpte_6m4
unwind 2y ago
Just as a counterpoint, in Europe the requirement is to specify nutrition data per 100 g of "usable" product. Some products are e.g. intended to be added to water before consumption, then the nutrition is for that final form, not for the concentrate that you actually buy. But it's really practical, it makes it dead easy to e.g. compare calories, sugar, fat and so on between e.g. milk and apple sauce (to take random example from the breakfast table this morning).
- M0x20M 2y ago
  This seems to make a lot of sense since there are no calories or nutrients in water.
  - Iulioh 2y ago
    Eh. Sometimes it is used for milk too Example: "Calories for final product using 2% milk" And it's really confusing for someone like me who is tracking calories Iirc it was even worse because it was for a bag of dehydrated potatoes that used a mix of water and milk on the recipe. Another example was noodles, it is sometimes said for 100ml of finished product (at this point tell me the calories for the entirety of the pack or 100gr of it) I prefer dry weight.
- aulin 2y ago
  > in Europe the requirement is to specify nutrition data per 100 g of "usable" product Source? that doesn't seem true and seems prone to the same serving size tricks used in US. My experience it that nutritional values per 100g of product (actual raw product no matter what its final form is supposed to be) are always listed first. Then if you're supposed to mix it with water there can be e.g., optionally, a nutritional table per 100ml of finished product.
  - esperent 2y ago
    ~It's true.~ Edit: sorry I misread the previous comment. It's 100g "as sold". Not "as prepared". > All the information must be expressed per 100g or per 100ml. It may also, in addition, be expressed per portion or per consumption unit of the product. https://food.ec.europa.eu/safety/labelling-and-nutrition/food-information-consumers-legislation/nutrition-labelling_en https://food.ec.europa.eu/safety/labelling-and-nutrition/foo...
    - aulin 2y ago
      That doesn't say anything. It just says it may be more convenient to express data per 100 ml if you have a liquid product. Can you cite the article where it says you can express nutritional data with respect to a final form of the product you mix yourself and not list the per 100g/100ml data? I'm still very skeptic but would be quite interesting if that was really allowed.
      - esperent 2y ago
        Apologies, I misread your previous comment. You're correct that the requirement is for 100g/100ml "as sold" not "as prepared". The other commenter is incorrect. So milk powder, for example, would have a mandatory nutrition label showing 100g of powder and then the company can optionally add a second label showing nutrition for a serving of prepared liquid milk. Since most companies add whatever serving makes it look best it becomes habitual to filter out the serving size info. If anyone wants to dive further into this it's EU regulation 1169/2011 Annex 1.
- sshine 2y ago
  In Europe, lactose is sugar. I am drinking an energy drink with a big "zero calories + zero sugar" label. On the nutritional content, it actually says 2 kcal per 100 ml even though there is <0.1g carbs in the recipe.
  - aulin 2y ago
    Additives and artificial sweeteners still have calories. E.g. 1g of citric acid is about 2.5 kcal. Also it's fun how can they name something "energy drink" and then advertise no calories. Where do I get the energy then?
    - esperent 2y ago
      Caffeine, taurine, b vitamins. Plus the placebo effect which is the only reason you get instant energy from any kind of energy drink. Even pure liquid sucrose takes at least 30 minutes to digest (aside from a negligible amount that's digested in the mouth. There's some interesting studies that show energy gain during a workout from just rinsing your mouth with an energy drink and not swallowing any. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3916844/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3916844/
      - sshine 2y ago
        I instantly wake up with my first sip of caffeine. I can believe it takes longer to get absorbed.
        esperent 2y ago
        At least 30 minutes, apparently. Any effect you feel before that is placebo. Which shouldn't be read as "not real". The placebo effect means that actual physiological changes are happening in your body, they have just been initiated by your PNI system rather than the the substance.
        sshine 2y ago
- _0ffh 2y ago
  No, "usable" product cannot be quite the correct expression. The macros per 100g of dry pasta are for the dry, not the cooked product. I'd venture to guess that few people eat their pasta dry.
  - unwind 2y ago
    That's true, didn't think of pasta ... Not sure how to express it then, but on the other hand beverages sold as concentrate and mixed with water before drinking ("cordials" in English, I think) seem less common elsewhere so perhaps it's a local/Swedish thing and not a very good thing to focus on at all. :) [1]: Like https://orklafoodsrs.se/produkt/454051626 https://orklafoodsrs.se/produkt/454051626, scroll down and the nutritional info ("Näringsvärde") is right there and it's clearly the diluted drinkable version, not the concentrate.
    - _0ffh 2y ago
      Someone else dug up what is probably the correct answer: "Where appropriate, the information may relate to the food after preparation, provided that sufficiently detailed preparation instructions are given and the information relates to the food as prepared for consumption."
BobaFloutist 2y ago
That's also why cooking spray, which is 100% fat, can be advertised as having 0 grams of fat. Because 1/3 of a second of spray, the serving size, has less than the minimum amount of fat you need to declare.

voidUpdate 2y ago

Reminds me of the Vihart video about serving sizes in soup https://youtu.be/mxNPpte_6m4 https://youtu.be/mxNPpte_6m4

unwind 2y ago

Just as a counterpoint, in Europe the requirement is to specify nutrition data per 100 g of "usable" product. Some products are e.g. intended to be added to water before consumption, then the nutrition is for that final form, not for the concentrate that you actually buy. But it's really practical, it makes it dead easy to e.g. compare calories, sugar, fat and so on between e.g. milk and apple sauce (to take random example from the breakfast table this morning).

M0x20M 2y ago
This seems to make a lot of sense since there are no calories or nutrients in water.
- Iulioh 2y ago
  Eh. Sometimes it is used for milk too Example: "Calories for final product using 2% milk" And it's really confusing for someone like me who is tracking calories Iirc it was even worse because it was for a bag of dehydrated potatoes that used a mix of water and milk on the recipe. Another example was noodles, it is sometimes said for 100ml of finished product (at this point tell me the calories for the entirety of the pack or 100gr of it) I prefer dry weight.
aulin 2y ago
> in Europe the requirement is to specify nutrition data per 100 g of "usable" product Source? that doesn't seem true and seems prone to the same serving size tricks used in US. My experience it that nutritional values per 100g of product (actual raw product no matter what its final form is supposed to be) are always listed first. Then if you're supposed to mix it with water there can be e.g., optionally, a nutritional table per 100ml of finished product.
- esperent 2y ago
  ~It's true.~ Edit: sorry I misread the previous comment. It's 100g "as sold". Not "as prepared". > All the information must be expressed per 100g or per 100ml. It may also, in addition, be expressed per portion or per consumption unit of the product. https://food.ec.europa.eu/safety/labelling-and-nutrition/food-information-consumers-legislation/nutrition-labelling_en https://food.ec.europa.eu/safety/labelling-and-nutrition/foo...
  - aulin 2y ago
    That doesn't say anything. It just says it may be more convenient to express data per 100 ml if you have a liquid product. Can you cite the article where it says you can express nutritional data with respect to a final form of the product you mix yourself and not list the per 100g/100ml data? I'm still very skeptic but would be quite interesting if that was really allowed.
    - esperent 2y ago
      Apologies, I misread your previous comment. You're correct that the requirement is for 100g/100ml "as sold" not "as prepared". The other commenter is incorrect. So milk powder, for example, would have a mandatory nutrition label showing 100g of powder and then the company can optionally add a second label showing nutrition for a serving of prepared liquid milk. Since most companies add whatever serving makes it look best it becomes habitual to filter out the serving size info. If anyone wants to dive further into this it's EU regulation 1169/2011 Annex 1.
sshine 2y ago
In Europe, lactose is sugar. I am drinking an energy drink with a big "zero calories + zero sugar" label. On the nutritional content, it actually says 2 kcal per 100 ml even though there is <0.1g carbs in the recipe.
- aulin 2y ago
  Additives and artificial sweeteners still have calories. E.g. 1g of citric acid is about 2.5 kcal. Also it's fun how can they name something "energy drink" and then advertise no calories. Where do I get the energy then?
  - esperent 2y ago
    Caffeine, taurine, b vitamins. Plus the placebo effect which is the only reason you get instant energy from any kind of energy drink. Even pure liquid sucrose takes at least 30 minutes to digest (aside from a negligible amount that's digested in the mouth. There's some interesting studies that show energy gain during a workout from just rinsing your mouth with an energy drink and not swallowing any. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3916844/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3916844/
    - sshine 2y ago
      I instantly wake up with my first sip of caffeine. I can believe it takes longer to get absorbed.
      - esperent 2y ago
        At least 30 minutes, apparently. Any effect you feel before that is placebo. Which shouldn't be read as "not real". The placebo effect means that actual physiological changes are happening in your body, they have just been initiated by your PNI system rather than the the substance.
        sshine 2y ago
_0ffh 2y ago
No, "usable" product cannot be quite the correct expression. The macros per 100g of dry pasta are for the dry, not the cooked product. I'd venture to guess that few people eat their pasta dry.
- unwind 2y ago
  That's true, didn't think of pasta ... Not sure how to express it then, but on the other hand beverages sold as concentrate and mixed with water before drinking ("cordials" in English, I think) seem less common elsewhere so perhaps it's a local/Swedish thing and not a very good thing to focus on at all. :) [1]: Like https://orklafoodsrs.se/produkt/454051626 https://orklafoodsrs.se/produkt/454051626, scroll down and the nutritional info ("Näringsvärde") is right there and it's clearly the diluted drinkable version, not the concentrate.
  - _0ffh 2y ago
    Someone else dug up what is probably the correct answer: "Where appropriate, the information may relate to the food after preparation, provided that sufficiently detailed preparation instructions are given and the information relates to the food as prepared for consumption."

BobaFloutist 2y ago

That's also why cooking spray, which is 100% fat, can be advertised as having 0 grams of fat. Because 1/3 of a second of spray, the serving size, has less than the minimum amount of fat you need to declare.