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We say that open source is "coding in public", but we often omit that it's also being a professional in public. Even if they were well intentioned, it doesn't s

We say that open source is "coding in public", but we often omit that it's also being a professional in public. Even if they were well intentioned, it doesn't sound like Tim's actions were too professional. That kind of behavior can be damaging for a professional community in a lot of ways. Outside of giving the impression that the community is not welcoming to individuals of all backgrounds, it can expose actual legal entities to actual risk. This doesn't seem like a one-time mistake, but rather a pattern of behavior that was measured and then acted upon -- likely after a series of warnings that took place behind closed doors. The suspension is really too bad for everyone involved in the Python community, but I hope it can be a lesson for folks who have a hard time separating how they present themselves personally vs. professionally. Let's also hope that this doesn't result in the collateral damage we saw after the whole Donglegate fiasco. I'd like to think after ten years of stuff like this we've gotten a little bit better.

eadmund 2y ago
> We say that open source is "coding in public", but we often omit that it's also being a professional in public. I completely agree! > it doesn't sound like Tim's actions were too professional. I disagree here, at least with respect to what I have seen of his actions (I am not deeply familiar with them, just know what was referred to in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41187470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41187470). From what I can tell, the Python Steering Council’s actions were unprofessional and the members should resign; if they do not, they should be replaced. However, since I have not seen everything referred to, it is possible that I am wrong. edit 1: reference earlier HN thread edit 2: I found and linked that earlier thread
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
> folks who have a hard time separating how they present themselves personally vs. professionally It always amazes me to see the way people behave here. Some of the heaviest hitters in the world hang out here. Even though the atmosphere is casual, careers are regularly made (and, I suspect, broken), here. I know that I may seem overly casual, in my own posting here, but: 1) I am not looking for employment, 2) I try to present a face of kindness and empathy. It may seem "stuffy," but I never come from a position of "I'm better than you" (There's very good reason for that, which is a story for another time), and 3) I take care not to "go negative." I'm quite capable of it, being a reformed troll, but have decided that it is better to be a force for unity, than rancor.
xnabn 2y ago
python-dev has never been professional. Steering Council member Wouters: https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=107666540014940&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=107666540014940&w=2 "Eek... What do we have the fucking warning framework and deprecation warnings for, anyway ?!" Van Rossum: https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=139283012525982&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=139283012525982&w=2 "Larry volunteered to be the release manager and got widespread support when he did. If you don't trust him, go fucking fork the release yourself." Both are members of the inner circle and protected.
- wink 2y ago
  Not every part of the world looks down on mild use of profanity, or even has the same concept of mild or not mild profanity. If you think using the f-word in professional communication makes it unprofessional, do I have decades of stories to tell.
  - dingaling 2y ago
    There are circumstances when it is appropriate or necessary, such as when indicating urgency or criticality or when emphasising authority when it is challenged in person. But, I would argue, not in a mailing list.

eadmund 2y ago

> We say that open source is "coding in public", but we often omit that it's also being a professional in public. I completely agree! > it doesn't sound like Tim's actions were too professional. I disagree here, at least with respect to what I have seen of his actions (I am not deeply familiar with them, just know what was referred to in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41187470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41187470). From what I can tell, the Python Steering Council’s actions were unprofessional and the members should resign; if they do not, they should be replaced. However, since I have not seen everything referred to, it is possible that I am wrong. edit 1: reference earlier HN thread edit 2: I found and linked that earlier thread

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

> folks who have a hard time separating how they present themselves personally vs. professionally It always amazes me to see the way people behave here. Some of the heaviest hitters in the world hang out here. Even though the atmosphere is casual, careers are regularly made (and, I suspect, broken), here. I know that I may seem overly casual, in my own posting here, but: 1) I am not looking for employment, 2) I try to present a face of kindness and empathy. It may seem "stuffy," but I never come from a position of "I'm better than you" (There's very good reason for that, which is a story for another time), and 3) I take care not to "go negative." I'm quite capable of it, being a reformed troll, but have decided that it is better to be a force for unity, than rancor.

xnabn 2y ago

python-dev has never been professional. Steering Council member Wouters: https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=107666540014940&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=107666540014940&w=2 "Eek... What do we have the fucking warning framework and deprecation warnings for, anyway ?!" Van Rossum: https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=139283012525982&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=python-dev&m=139283012525982&w=2 "Larry volunteered to be the release manager and got widespread support when he did. If you don't trust him, go fucking fork the release yourself." Both are members of the inner circle and protected.

wink 2y ago
Not every part of the world looks down on mild use of profanity, or even has the same concept of mild or not mild profanity. If you think using the f-word in professional communication makes it unprofessional, do I have decades of stories to tell.
- dingaling 2y ago
  There are circumstances when it is appropriate or necessary, such as when indicating urgency or criticality or when emphasising authority when it is challenged in person. But, I would argue, not in a mailing list.