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If you read the OIG report, it states: "Michoud officials stated that it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce with aerospace manufac

If you read the OIG report, it states: "Michoud officials stated that it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce with aerospace manufacturing experience in part due to Michoud’s geographical location in New Orleans, Louisiana, and lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors."

eddiewithzato 2y ago
aka they aren’t willing to pay, many such cases.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Their wages are fine, there is simply a shortage of labor which is everybody's problem and needs government intervention in the form of tax dollars or something. /s
whimsicalism 2y ago
There is a reason that major contractors for government have widely distributed facilities in politically relevant states.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  Ideally there should be one facility in all 435 districts. This isn't ideal for optimizing quality work.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
selimthegrim 2y ago
How did they build LIGO then? Fairy dust?
selimthegrim 2y ago
UNO’s enrollment has dropped by 2/3rds since Katrina. What did people think was going to happen to the labor supply?
Mistletoe 2y ago
New Orleans is one of the greatest cities in the world and definitely has access to experienced welders, this argument makes no sense to me.
- _moof 2y ago
  Not only that but Stennis Space Center is nearby. It's no Cape Canaveral but it's not as though aerospace is completely unheard of there.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    Stennis is not getting its personnel from local grad schools.
    - _moof 2y ago
      Welders don't go to grad school so I'm not sure what we're talking about here.
      - selimthegrim 2y ago
        Stennis isn’t going to keep welders around. Those are the design and engineering support personnel.
- inetknght 2y ago
  > this argument makes no sense to me Might want to remember that experienced welders demand stronger compensation. Can't have that compensation going to the wrong people, though. Boeing can't survive as a business if it had to compensate fairly!
- Nicholas_C 2y ago
  There have to be a lot of welders in that region due to the oil and gas and heavy industry. If there aren't enough welders there I don't know what area would have enough. As others have said, maybe they're not paying them enough?
wmf 2y ago
The entire purpose of SLS is to create high-paying jobs and they just... didn't. Imagine having a blank check and cheaping out. Amazing.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  If you can get away with the share buybacks and other self enrichment, with no accountability mechanisms, this is a natural outcome based on who is in charge of these companies. But, if we were to have made these workers government employees to pay them the desired wages (and cut out the management and shareholder middlemen) as well as “pay, train, retrain”, we would have been laughed at as promoting government waste. Much harder to skim government wages as a for profit enterprise vs government contracts. Like a religion or a cult, you have to cut through the ideology; the ideas are parroted to control the narrative. https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/the-rot-at-the-heart-of-boeing/ https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/the-rot-at-the-heart-of... https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-disaster-american-businesses-greedy-broken-stock-market-wall-street-2024-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-disaster-american-bus...
  - ipaddr 2y ago
    Why would the qualified people who desire to work in that location and have better options suddenly work for the government. If the idea is to train non-experienced people that's what Boeing did. What is going to prevent them for leaving for other local work that pays better once they have some experience. What the government should have done is reduce their pay for missing deadlines by having milestones in the contract. At that point paying more makes economic sense and wages would rise.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Because government jobs are secure, Boeing subcontractor jobs where you are a cheap disposal cog are not. If you don’t see the value in security to someone making $20-$40/hr who needs healthcare benefits, you might start there. A union fixes this in the long term, but that will take time. Government can employ rapidly. Something, quickly, needs to change before we forget how to build because MBAs, accountants, and lawyers burned the place down for shareholder value. There are two astronauts stuck in space very publicly demonstrating this.
klabb3 2y ago
> it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce […] in part due to […] lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors You’re building rockets and complaining about the cost of skilled labor?
- armada651 2y ago
  I always found the obsession with location-determined compensation weird. Experienced workers know exactly what their skills are worth regardless of the local labor market, so why even try surpressing their wages? Besides when you're an aerospace company producing rockets for NASA you are not building a product that the local market pays for, so why should your workers be affected by what the local market is willing to pay for their skills? How can the local labor market accurately value their skills if the product of their labor isn't sold in the same market?
  - pants2 2y ago
    Because with non-remote work like welders you're competing with the local market for welders. Of course if they're paying 30% below market that means they're not properly doing location-based compensation. It's also a plain idiotic move because you'll end up with workers who cost 70% as much and are half as productive, at best, or at worst workers who cost 10,000% more because they screw up a critical component and cause massive delays.
dopidopHN 2y ago
I live in New Orleans. It’s 1h away of commute. They pay a solid 30% below market. ( 100k for a senior eng position )
- terribleperson 2y ago
  At 30% below market, I imagine most of their applicants are either true believers, fuck-ups, or lying about their experience. Probably mostly fuck-ups.
  - numbsafari 2y ago
    Fuckups lying about their experience who truly believe they can get away with it. The tri-fuckta.

eddiewithzato 2y ago

aka they aren’t willing to pay, many such cases.

Terr_ 2y ago
Their wages are fine, there is simply a shortage of labor which is everybody's problem and needs government intervention in the form of tax dollars or something. /s

whimsicalism 2y ago

There is a reason that major contractors for government have widely distributed facilities in politically relevant states.

BurningFrog 2y ago
Ideally there should be one facility in all 435 districts. This isn't ideal for optimizing quality work.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

selimthegrim 2y ago

How did they build LIGO then? Fairy dust?

selimthegrim 2y ago

UNO’s enrollment has dropped by 2/3rds since Katrina. What did people think was going to happen to the labor supply?

Mistletoe 2y ago

New Orleans is one of the greatest cities in the world and definitely has access to experienced welders, this argument makes no sense to me.

_moof 2y ago
Not only that but Stennis Space Center is nearby. It's no Cape Canaveral but it's not as though aerospace is completely unheard of there.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Stennis is not getting its personnel from local grad schools.
  - _moof 2y ago
    Welders don't go to grad school so I'm not sure what we're talking about here.
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      Stennis isn’t going to keep welders around. Those are the design and engineering support personnel.
inetknght 2y ago
> this argument makes no sense to me Might want to remember that experienced welders demand stronger compensation. Can't have that compensation going to the wrong people, though. Boeing can't survive as a business if it had to compensate fairly!
Nicholas_C 2y ago
There have to be a lot of welders in that region due to the oil and gas and heavy industry. If there aren't enough welders there I don't know what area would have enough. As others have said, maybe they're not paying them enough?

wmf 2y ago

The entire purpose of SLS is to create high-paying jobs and they just... didn't. Imagine having a blank check and cheaping out. Amazing.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
If you can get away with the share buybacks and other self enrichment, with no accountability mechanisms, this is a natural outcome based on who is in charge of these companies. But, if we were to have made these workers government employees to pay them the desired wages (and cut out the management and shareholder middlemen) as well as “pay, train, retrain”, we would have been laughed at as promoting government waste. Much harder to skim government wages as a for profit enterprise vs government contracts. Like a religion or a cult, you have to cut through the ideology; the ideas are parroted to control the narrative. https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/the-rot-at-the-heart-of-boeing/ https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/the-rot-at-the-heart-of... https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-disaster-american-businesses-greedy-broken-stock-market-wall-street-2024-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-disaster-american-bus...
- ipaddr 2y ago
  Why would the qualified people who desire to work in that location and have better options suddenly work for the government. If the idea is to train non-experienced people that's what Boeing did. What is going to prevent them for leaving for other local work that pays better once they have some experience. What the government should have done is reduce their pay for missing deadlines by having milestones in the contract. At that point paying more makes economic sense and wages would rise.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Because government jobs are secure, Boeing subcontractor jobs where you are a cheap disposal cog are not. If you don’t see the value in security to someone making $20-$40/hr who needs healthcare benefits, you might start there. A union fixes this in the long term, but that will take time. Government can employ rapidly. Something, quickly, needs to change before we forget how to build because MBAs, accountants, and lawyers burned the place down for shareholder value. There are two astronauts stuck in space very publicly demonstrating this.

klabb3 2y ago

> it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce […] in part due to […] lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors You’re building rockets and complaining about the cost of skilled labor?

armada651 2y ago
I always found the obsession with location-determined compensation weird. Experienced workers know exactly what their skills are worth regardless of the local labor market, so why even try surpressing their wages? Besides when you're an aerospace company producing rockets for NASA you are not building a product that the local market pays for, so why should your workers be affected by what the local market is willing to pay for their skills? How can the local labor market accurately value their skills if the product of their labor isn't sold in the same market?
- pants2 2y ago
  Because with non-remote work like welders you're competing with the local market for welders. Of course if they're paying 30% below market that means they're not properly doing location-based compensation. It's also a plain idiotic move because you'll end up with workers who cost 70% as much and are half as productive, at best, or at worst workers who cost 10,000% more because they screw up a critical component and cause massive delays.

dopidopHN 2y ago

I live in New Orleans. It’s 1h away of commute. They pay a solid 30% below market. ( 100k for a senior eng position )

terribleperson 2y ago
At 30% below market, I imagine most of their applicants are either true believers, fuck-ups, or lying about their experience. Probably mostly fuck-ups.
- numbsafari 2y ago
  Fuckups lying about their experience who truly believe they can get away with it. The tri-fuckta.