4 ms·

> I can help you with that—demolition, framing, reworking the plumbing, moving some electrical, installing some mould-resistant drywall, maybe some nice tile fo

by dgfitz 2y ago

> I can help you with that—demolition, framing, reworking the plumbing, moving some electrical, installing some mould-resistant drywall, maybe some nice tile for the floor and some classic glazed ceramic three-by-six subway tile for the tub surround. Should take a month or two, depending on what all’s involved. A month or two?! To re-do a bathroom? You say this like you're proud of it. I wouldn't. Accounting for drywall mudding and drying it should take a week, where most of the work happens in 2 days, on the weekend. Maybe you need 2 more days, the next weekend. Hell, take the other end of that weekend too. 1-2 month quotes is why I don't hire contractors, why I fix my own cars, and only use a personal friend for HVAC help.

AyyEye 2y ago
It took the people we hired to redo our kitchen nearly two years. I have no doubt that the bathroom would have taken similarly long. We had a similar experience with people hired to replace our windows taking two years before the lawyers got involved. Both of these were on the medium-high prices because we got burned hiring a couple of cheap folks in the past. Joke's on us. Things they both did: - Not measure things properly. How on earth a "professional" can be two-four inches off on several measurements I have no idea. - Not check the order before ordering it (and waiting months for it to be made and come in). - Not check the order before installing it. - Conveniently losing digital and physical copies of contracts and communications. Too bad for them we kept the signed originals. - When I mention that it's clearly not right (prior to install) we get told something along the lines of "that's how they come from the factory, we fix it after installation". After install we get told "of course we can't fix that, you can accept it or wait another 6-8 months for new parts." - A project manager that never actually supervises anything or shows up and has no problem lying to your face then saying something completely different in email afterwards. - Contractor blaming manufacturer while manufacturer blames contractor. You have to take a day off work every time they come to inspect things yet again. That's not even mentioning the constant babysitting that needs to be done (I am no contractor but maybe connect the drain to the sink before it gets turned on?) And all the little things that you end up doing yourself anyway because at this point it's just not worth it anymore like fixing all of the drywall they broke because I can do it in an afternoon and I am tired of talking to them and tired of seeing them and it will take you two weeks to come out anyway. And we are not being picky here. It's stuff that should have been immediately obvious. Like our kitchen cabinets not having windows (we cut the windows out after install, they said). Or being three different colors (we paint them afterwards, they said). After install I find that both of those are lies and they apparently ordered the wrong cabinets and put in some other customer's cabinets on half my kitchen (one of the cabinets had over a dozen shims to make it fit properly). Three different materials (fiberboard, plywood, and solid wood). I didn't even notice that one until after install. What about the window that was inches too big, and you didn't bother to check before ripping the old one out? Now I need to have plywood on my window for 8 months while you order a replacement. Good thing I'm not in an HOA or that would have got expensive quick. Maybe caulk the windows too? Just a suggestion but idk you're the professional you probably know better than the manufacturer. My partner, child, or myself getting cut every time we wipe the windows. I don't care if it's the manufacturers fault come send somebody to sand them down and clip off the sharp bits. It's going to take 8 months for the new ones to come in. We're tired of bleeding every time we clean. Lastly if you have explosive diahrrea fucking clean the toilet afterwards, especially if it splashes all the way up the lid. You are disgusting and you do shit work. And the worst part is I never even mentioned the diahrrea to them because in the grand scheme of things it was absolutely minor. Washing dishes in the winter outside with a hose fucking sucks. And washing dishes in the tiny bathroom sink sucks. Washing dishes in a tiny bathroom sink right after someone stunk it up really sucks. At least if you do it yourself, you can take a long time and do a shot job, and take solace knowing that if you hired someone it would have been just as bad but taken longer and been more expensive. /rant. Sorry. The last few years have been stressful. If you actually find someone that isn't bad hold on to them tight. Find an owner/operator who answers his own phone, does his own estimates, and does his own work.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  I'm not going to understand why I was downvoted, not that I care much. You made my point for me, we are in complete agreement.
  - AyyEye 2y ago
    I had to reply with my experiences after seeing those downvotes.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      Much obliged.
- nuancebydefault 2y ago
  So sad to hear you had such a bad experience. I believe sometimes marriages are like that as well. I'm such a lucky person (knock on wood...) for not going through such serious problems in construction & love... (however getting to the point of obtaining 'true' love took a lot of time and disappointments).
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Far too many home improvement "professionals" are just handymen or people who have worked as laborers for another contractor or are self-taught who hang out their own shingle. Sort of the same as software engineers. It would be nice if there were a "fizzbuzz" test we could give contractors before hiring. Hiring people who are unionized or who went through a union apprenticeship has been fairly reliable in my experience but union guys generally don't work on small household projects and they don't come cheap.
  - AyyEye 2y ago
    Well the professionals are licensed bonded and insured. I only found out afterwards that the lawyer who literally wrote the contractor law in Nevada works primarily for contractors so it doesn't really help you very much. At least with handymen when you can find a good one they are better than the best professionals.
bluGill 2y ago
If you are helping me do that work it will take more than 2 months - with kids and all they have to do I cannot do much work in a week. Monday I can work a couple hours, but only if my wife makes supper, Tuesday the girls have [mumble] so I have to cook, no time for anything else, then... Saturday might be free if the kids don't have an activity. If I quit my job I could get the bathroom done in a couple weeks alone, and less if I can get help for the tasks that really need two people. It likely will take longer but only because of permits and inspections. However I can't afford to retire (well I can, but not on the lifestyle I want - cabins in Montana are cheap but I want lights and indoor plumbing)
- beaglesss 2y ago
  I built my house from nothing, not even utilities, by myself working full time and with kids. Sure kids activities have to go on a back burner, but sorry, they have food and shelter and after that their enjoyment has to take a backseat to the family building the house which benefits us far longer than the memories of the park or soccer practice. I respect choices of others but ultimately I see no reason to place childrens non-needs above critical family infrastructure.
  - digging 2y ago
    Please, don't take this as a personal judgment! I don't know you, I'm just judging what's written here. > kids activities have to go on a back burner ... I see no reason to place childrens non-needs above critical family infrastructure This comes across as pretty callous toward your children's development! Social interactions with family are needs for children, too. It sounds like you chose to go off and build a house unnecessarily and ignored the labor of raising your children to do it, which a lot of people would find pretty irresponsible. So as a rebuttal to someone else saying they can't make the time, because they have work and kids, I think it functions better as an argument against doing what you did. If buying an already-built home wasn't a realistic option for you, that would be very important context here.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
BanazirGalbasi 2y ago
For people new to the DIY skills it requires to do it right, 2 months seems reasonable. You have to learn the skills, and when you're applying them you stop constantly to check tutorials or look for advice. You take the entire project one step at a time and you do one part before even starting to research the next. A day of demo leaves you with an empty room with pipes sticking out of the walls. Maybe you've removed the drywall too so now you have outlet boxes and studs to work with. You take the rest of the day to finish the cleanup and triple-check your measurements for everything. Half your weekend has now been taken to demolish and clean up a core part of your home. The next day you do your framing, including buying your lumber. Again, if you're new to this, you're probably checking a tutorial or plans every 10 minutes as you go so you make sure you're doing it right. If you have time and you're confident, you can get the plumbing set up so that it's ready to drop the tub/shower and vanity in place next weekend. For someone with experience, this is an excruciatingly slow pace. For someone who is doing it for the first time and may never do it again, this is pretty reasonable. I would absolutely be proud of taking two months to do a bathroom if it means it's done right the first time. Going by the comments about contractors here, that's not a guarantee just because someone else can do it faster.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  If you want to move the goalposts by introducing a lack of skill and materials, sure the argument falls apart. You are debating a different point entirely.
hooverd 2y ago
I don't think the actual amount of time working changes if it takes one week or two months lol.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  It doesn’t, so why drag it out for 60+ days when you can do it in 3-5

by dgfitz 2y ago

AyyEye 2y ago

It took the people we hired to redo our kitchen nearly two years. I have no doubt that the bathroom would have taken similarly long. We had a similar experience with people hired to replace our windows taking two years before the lawyers got involved. Both of these were on the medium-high prices because we got burned hiring a couple of cheap folks in the past. Joke's on us. Things they both did: - Not measure things properly. How on earth a "professional" can be two-four inches off on several measurements I have no idea. - Not check the order before ordering it (and waiting months for it to be made and come in). - Not check the order before installing it. - Conveniently losing digital and physical copies of contracts and communications. Too bad for them we kept the signed originals. - When I mention that it's clearly not right (prior to install) we get told something along the lines of "that's how they come from the factory, we fix it after installation". After install we get told "of course we can't fix that, you can accept it or wait another 6-8 months for new parts." - A project manager that never actually supervises anything or shows up and has no problem lying to your face then saying something completely different in email afterwards. - Contractor blaming manufacturer while manufacturer blames contractor. You have to take a day off work every time they come to inspect things yet again. That's not even mentioning the constant babysitting that needs to be done (I am no contractor but maybe connect the drain to the sink before it gets turned on?) And all the little things that you end up doing yourself anyway because at this point it's just not worth it anymore like fixing all of the drywall they broke because I can do it in an afternoon and I am tired of talking to them and tired of seeing them and it will take you two weeks to come out anyway. And we are not being picky here. It's stuff that should have been immediately obvious. Like our kitchen cabinets not having windows (we cut the windows out after install, they said). Or being three different colors (we paint them afterwards, they said). After install I find that both of those are lies and they apparently ordered the wrong cabinets and put in some other customer's cabinets on half my kitchen (one of the cabinets had over a dozen shims to make it fit properly). Three different materials (fiberboard, plywood, and solid wood). I didn't even notice that one until after install. What about the window that was inches too big, and you didn't bother to check before ripping the old one out? Now I need to have plywood on my window for 8 months while you order a replacement. Good thing I'm not in an HOA or that would have got expensive quick. Maybe caulk the windows too? Just a suggestion but idk you're the professional you probably know better than the manufacturer. My partner, child, or myself getting cut every time we wipe the windows. I don't care if it's the manufacturers fault come send somebody to sand them down and clip off the sharp bits. It's going to take 8 months for the new ones to come in. We're tired of bleeding every time we clean. Lastly if you have explosive diahrrea fucking clean the toilet afterwards, especially if it splashes all the way up the lid. You are disgusting and you do shit work. And the worst part is I never even mentioned the diahrrea to them because in the grand scheme of things it was absolutely minor. Washing dishes in the winter outside with a hose fucking sucks. And washing dishes in the tiny bathroom sink sucks. Washing dishes in a tiny bathroom sink right after someone stunk it up really sucks. At least if you do it yourself, you can take a long time and do a shot job, and take solace knowing that if you hired someone it would have been just as bad but taken longer and been more expensive. /rant. Sorry. The last few years have been stressful. If you actually find someone that isn't bad hold on to them tight. Find an owner/operator who answers his own phone, does his own estimates, and does his own work.

dgfitz 2y ago
I'm not going to understand why I was downvoted, not that I care much. You made my point for me, we are in complete agreement.
- AyyEye 2y ago
  I had to reply with my experiences after seeing those downvotes.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    Much obliged.
nuancebydefault 2y ago
So sad to hear you had such a bad experience. I believe sometimes marriages are like that as well. I'm such a lucky person (knock on wood...) for not going through such serious problems in construction & love... (however getting to the point of obtaining 'true' love took a lot of time and disappointments).
SoftTalker 2y ago
Far too many home improvement "professionals" are just handymen or people who have worked as laborers for another contractor or are self-taught who hang out their own shingle. Sort of the same as software engineers. It would be nice if there were a "fizzbuzz" test we could give contractors before hiring. Hiring people who are unionized or who went through a union apprenticeship has been fairly reliable in my experience but union guys generally don't work on small household projects and they don't come cheap.
- AyyEye 2y ago
  Well the professionals are licensed bonded and insured. I only found out afterwards that the lawyer who literally wrote the contractor law in Nevada works primarily for contractors so it doesn't really help you very much. At least with handymen when you can find a good one they are better than the best professionals.

bluGill 2y ago

If you are helping me do that work it will take more than 2 months - with kids and all they have to do I cannot do much work in a week. Monday I can work a couple hours, but only if my wife makes supper, Tuesday the girls have [mumble] so I have to cook, no time for anything else, then... Saturday might be free if the kids don't have an activity. If I quit my job I could get the bathroom done in a couple weeks alone, and less if I can get help for the tasks that really need two people. It likely will take longer but only because of permits and inspections. However I can't afford to retire (well I can, but not on the lifestyle I want - cabins in Montana are cheap but I want lights and indoor plumbing)

beaglesss 2y ago
I built my house from nothing, not even utilities, by myself working full time and with kids. Sure kids activities have to go on a back burner, but sorry, they have food and shelter and after that their enjoyment has to take a backseat to the family building the house which benefits us far longer than the memories of the park or soccer practice. I respect choices of others but ultimately I see no reason to place childrens non-needs above critical family infrastructure.
- digging 2y ago
  Please, don't take this as a personal judgment! I don't know you, I'm just judging what's written here. > kids activities have to go on a back burner ... I see no reason to place childrens non-needs above critical family infrastructure This comes across as pretty callous toward your children's development! Social interactions with family are needs for children, too. It sounds like you chose to go off and build a house unnecessarily and ignored the labor of raising your children to do it, which a lot of people would find pretty irresponsible. So as a rebuttal to someone else saying they can't make the time, because they have work and kids, I think it functions better as an argument against doing what you did. If buying an already-built home wasn't a realistic option for you, that would be very important context here.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

BanazirGalbasi 2y ago

For people new to the DIY skills it requires to do it right, 2 months seems reasonable. You have to learn the skills, and when you're applying them you stop constantly to check tutorials or look for advice. You take the entire project one step at a time and you do one part before even starting to research the next. A day of demo leaves you with an empty room with pipes sticking out of the walls. Maybe you've removed the drywall too so now you have outlet boxes and studs to work with. You take the rest of the day to finish the cleanup and triple-check your measurements for everything. Half your weekend has now been taken to demolish and clean up a core part of your home. The next day you do your framing, including buying your lumber. Again, if you're new to this, you're probably checking a tutorial or plans every 10 minutes as you go so you make sure you're doing it right. If you have time and you're confident, you can get the plumbing set up so that it's ready to drop the tub/shower and vanity in place next weekend. For someone with experience, this is an excruciatingly slow pace. For someone who is doing it for the first time and may never do it again, this is pretty reasonable. I would absolutely be proud of taking two months to do a bathroom if it means it's done right the first time. Going by the comments about contractors here, that's not a guarantee just because someone else can do it faster.

dgfitz 2y ago
If you want to move the goalposts by introducing a lack of skill and materials, sure the argument falls apart. You are debating a different point entirely.

hooverd 2y ago

I don't think the actual amount of time working changes if it takes one week or two months lol.

dgfitz 2y ago
It doesn’t, so why drag it out for 60+ days when you can do it in 3-5