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I wonder if we have better/faster athletes now because poverty is going down? Like, back in the 1950's there were people on this earth who were genetically the

I wonder if we have better/faster athletes now because poverty is going down? Like, back in the 1950's there were people on this earth who were genetically the best at running but potentially did not have the economic means to actually train themselves and develop. As we bring more people above the poverty line, there's more of a chance of finding those genetically gifted people and developing them.

hacb 2y ago
The technology related to running also improved a lot in the last years (running shoes with carbon inserts, better nutrition, ...)
K0balt 2y ago
I’d conjecture that what we see with both humans and animals is a result of two primary factors: nutrition and global mobility. Better food and medicine combined with mobility so that the best of the best can be brought to the competition.
wiether 2y ago
There are dozens factors that explains the performance improvements, like tech that can help detect future talents, globalization that can help finding talents in the middle of nowhere, studies on physiology... The biggest one being probably : experience. Thousands of athletes and coaches have learn for other's success and failures regarding training, pacing, resting, nutrition and removal of psychological limitations. Roger Bannister history is relevant : before he broke the 4mn mile, people thought it was impossible for decades. Once he did, many other achieved the same feat in the following years. Regarding your question about poverty, I'd say it's a tough one. Because in third World countries, only the athletes that pass the selection process actually come out of poverty. The others stay there. In rich countries on the other hand, I see two things : - having the means to train with the best coaches, the best gear... can help you make it to the top ; some rich parents are even pushing hard this way (see the article on tennis a few weeks back here en HN) - but also, if you have the means to go to college, aiming for a regular career is a way much safer bet than pursuing a professional athlete career. Teenagers that are very good at a sport and are given the choice between the two, most are going to pick the regular career and enjoy sport outside of work. A poor kid who's choice is between a life changing career in sports and stay in the misery they known since their birth, are definitely going to pick the only one offering the hope of a positive outcome.
BobaFloutist 2y ago
I would imagine that as global population increases, we just get to buy more and more lottery tickets with the hope of producing someone with the genes, the temperament, and the upbringing to excel in any given niche in increasingly absurd ways.
flowincarnate 2y ago
There are a lot of factors, however for better or worse PEDs are likely a huge portion of this. I don't think folks realize just how pervasive their use is in almost every sport.
- Someone 2y ago
  “PED” isn’t a precise term. I think most sports, at top level, are kind of clean in that athletes adhere to doping regulations. They also sail extremely close to the limits, though. For example, exercise induced asthma is extremely common for athletes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_bronchoconstriction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_bronchoconstr...: “Research by sports scientist John Dickinson found that 70 percent of UK-based members of the British swimming team had some form of asthma, as did a third of Team Sky cyclists, compared to a national asthma rate of eight to ten percent, whilst a study by the United States Olympic Committee in 2000 found that half of cross-country skiers had EIB.” Many of those athletes will use medicine to correct for this that enhances their performance. That isn’t that different from taking corticosteroids to cure an inflammation that thus allow athletes to train at higher intensity, but the former is medicine and the latter is forbidden medicine aka doping.
  - eszed 2y ago
    > taking corticosteroids to cure an inflammation that thus allow athletes to train at higher intensity, but the former is medicine and the latter is forbidden medicine aka doping. Is that a UK-specific sporting regulation? In the US, professional athletes regularly take cortisone shots with no repurcussions.
    - nradov 2y ago
      That varies by the league. USADA/WADA rules are fairly strict about corticosteroids but some US professional sports have looser rules.
tofflos 2y ago
I believe that the popular working theory is that poor people have less options, i.e. distractions, which leads to more time spent training and better athletes. If the theory is correct then bringing people out of poverty would also decrease the number of candidates.
- diggan 2y ago
  > I believe that the popular working theory is that poor people have less options, i.e. distractions, which leads to more time spent training and better athletes That sounds backwards. Poor people have more distractions, they need to think about how to survive the current week/month with the little they have, and do everything they can do make sure to afford housing and food, leading to less time spent training. At least that's my personal experience of being poor and not being able to focus because I didn't know if I'd afford the rent the next month.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  > I believe that the popular working theory is that poor people have less options, i.e. distractions, which leads to more time spent training and better athletes. As someone who grew up poor - this doesn’t make any sense. When you’re poor you can’t afford training, you can’t afford food and time to stay competitive.

hacb 2y ago

The technology related to running also improved a lot in the last years (running shoes with carbon inserts, better nutrition, ...)

K0balt 2y ago

I’d conjecture that what we see with both humans and animals is a result of two primary factors: nutrition and global mobility. Better food and medicine combined with mobility so that the best of the best can be brought to the competition.

wiether 2y ago

There are dozens factors that explains the performance improvements, like tech that can help detect future talents, globalization that can help finding talents in the middle of nowhere, studies on physiology... The biggest one being probably : experience. Thousands of athletes and coaches have learn for other's success and failures regarding training, pacing, resting, nutrition and removal of psychological limitations. Roger Bannister history is relevant : before he broke the 4mn mile, people thought it was impossible for decades. Once he did, many other achieved the same feat in the following years. Regarding your question about poverty, I'd say it's a tough one. Because in third World countries, only the athletes that pass the selection process actually come out of poverty. The others stay there. In rich countries on the other hand, I see two things : - having the means to train with the best coaches, the best gear... can help you make it to the top ; some rich parents are even pushing hard this way (see the article on tennis a few weeks back here en HN) - but also, if you have the means to go to college, aiming for a regular career is a way much safer bet than pursuing a professional athlete career. Teenagers that are very good at a sport and are given the choice between the two, most are going to pick the regular career and enjoy sport outside of work. A poor kid who's choice is between a life changing career in sports and stay in the misery they known since their birth, are definitely going to pick the only one offering the hope of a positive outcome.

BobaFloutist 2y ago

I would imagine that as global population increases, we just get to buy more and more lottery tickets with the hope of producing someone with the genes, the temperament, and the upbringing to excel in any given niche in increasingly absurd ways.

flowincarnate 2y ago

There are a lot of factors, however for better or worse PEDs are likely a huge portion of this. I don't think folks realize just how pervasive their use is in almost every sport.

Someone 2y ago
“PED” isn’t a precise term. I think most sports, at top level, are kind of clean in that athletes adhere to doping regulations. They also sail extremely close to the limits, though. For example, exercise induced asthma is extremely common for athletes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_bronchoconstriction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-induced_bronchoconstr...: “Research by sports scientist John Dickinson found that 70 percent of UK-based members of the British swimming team had some form of asthma, as did a third of Team Sky cyclists, compared to a national asthma rate of eight to ten percent, whilst a study by the United States Olympic Committee in 2000 found that half of cross-country skiers had EIB.” Many of those athletes will use medicine to correct for this that enhances their performance. That isn’t that different from taking corticosteroids to cure an inflammation that thus allow athletes to train at higher intensity, but the former is medicine and the latter is forbidden medicine aka doping.
- eszed 2y ago
  > taking corticosteroids to cure an inflammation that thus allow athletes to train at higher intensity, but the former is medicine and the latter is forbidden medicine aka doping. Is that a UK-specific sporting regulation? In the US, professional athletes regularly take cortisone shots with no repurcussions.
  - nradov 2y ago
    That varies by the league. USADA/WADA rules are fairly strict about corticosteroids but some US professional sports have looser rules.

tofflos 2y ago

I believe that the popular working theory is that poor people have less options, i.e. distractions, which leads to more time spent training and better athletes. If the theory is correct then bringing people out of poverty would also decrease the number of candidates.

diggan 2y ago
> I believe that the popular working theory is that poor people have less options, i.e. distractions, which leads to more time spent training and better athletes That sounds backwards. Poor people have more distractions, they need to think about how to survive the current week/month with the little they have, and do everything they can do make sure to afford housing and food, leading to less time spent training. At least that's my personal experience of being poor and not being able to focus because I didn't know if I'd afford the rent the next month.
wiseowise 2y ago
> I believe that the popular working theory is that poor people have less options, i.e. distractions, which leads to more time spent training and better athletes. As someone who grew up poor - this doesn’t make any sense. When you’re poor you can’t afford training, you can’t afford food and time to stay competitive.