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According to https://servo.org/about/ https://servo.org/about/ Servo currently passes ~60% of the web platform tests. Does anyone have experience how far that s

According to https://servo.org/about/ https://servo.org/about/ Servo currently passes ~60% of the web platform tests. Does anyone have experience how far that subset gets you on the open internet?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
timschmidt 2y ago
Hackernews and LWN render reasonably correctly in recent nightlies. Reddit does not.
- jsheard 2y ago
  New Reddit or Old Reddit?
  - timschmidt 2y ago
    New Reddit. Old reddit seems to work OK.
    - spankalee 2y ago
      The newest Reddit - not the React version, but the Lit version that's replacing it - uses very, very modern HTML and JavaScript. I'd love to see Servo get to the point of rendering it correctly!
      - satvikpendem 2y ago
        How many times are they going to rewrite the site? And how can you see the Lit versus React version, is there another link for it?
        StrauXX 2y ago
        There is old.reddit.com, reddit.com and new.reddit.com. new.reddit.com is not the same site as reddit.com!
        CryZe 2y ago
        new.reddit.com seems to be an older layout than just reddit.com for me, one where most stuff still works (like video embeds).
        timeon 2y ago
        At least it is faster and seems to be less bug-y.
        culi 2y ago
        TIL. new.reddit seems to be a return to old.reddit in a lot of ways. It also seems really really fast unlike the current www.reddit. If they remove some annoying ads I might even be convinced to stop using old.
        bee_rider 2y ago
        The only downside is that new is still being developed. Old is nice because it is shielded from their post-success incompetence. Whatever bad ideas they decide to implement will hit new first.
        oblio 2y ago
        new.reddit seems almost... sane. Like they kicked out whoever pushed/implemented reddit aka the current version and figured out that old.reddit had a lot of virtues.
        jccalhoun 2y ago
        It is so crazy. I normally use "reddit.com" but a few weeks ago i followed a link to an article on "old.reddit.com" and saw I had notifications. I clicked the item and it was all notifications from days ago. So the read status of notifications on old reddit and current reddit aren't linked?
      - hypeatei 2y ago
        Pretty amazing how a company can overengineer a basic feed that displays images and text (and ads). New Reddit is a dumpster fire, can't imagine another rewrite is going to fix it.
        BoredPositron 2y ago
        Yeah, I’ve never thought anyone could build a video player worse than realplayer but they achieved the impossible.
        throwaway894345 2y ago
        Yeah, one of the weirder things is that if someone blocks you, you are not allowed to reply to any comment in the thread (for example, if someone posts a toplevel comment and doesn’t reply to anything, and you reply to some comment a dozen layers below and have an exchange with some third party, if the toplevel commenter blocks you, you can’t reply to anything including comments left by others in response to your own comment) and you get a generic “internal server error”-type pop up with no information about why the request failed. This is most likely a server “feature” and thus a rewrite of the frontend won’t fix it but it seems like at very least the frontend could display a sane error message (assuming the backend forwards some information about the cause of the error).
  - d1sxeyes 2y ago
    New Reddit rendering “properly” is as useful as a chocolate fire guard. Do you want to view this content on the app? You Can Only View This Content In The App, THE APP is the WAY, JUST FUCKING DOWNLOAD THE APP!!! At least on mobile.
    - RamRodification 2y ago
      You will be registered, email verified and data mined or you can just go straight to hell.
    - moffkalast 2y ago
      Me: Okay fine, I'll download RedReader. Reddit: Wait no.
    - deergomoo 2y ago
      Can you imagine being on the team responsible for the mobile web Reddit experience? Having to implement a feature that tells every user, repeatedly, that their work is subpar and to please use something else.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cge 2y ago
  Itappearsthatspacesdon'tworkformewhentyping,butitotherwiseseemsthatevencommentingonhnworksinVerso.Editingappearstoworkaswell,thoughlinebreaksdon't(maybebecauseofspaces...). Edit (with Firefox): the above text is from Verso. Logging in works (though the session is not stored across restarts), as does both commenting and editing comments. Since space can't seem to be entered, word wrapping doesn't work with text entered in Verso, though it does seem to work when there is text with spaces (eg, this edit). A cursor also doesn't appear for me, making editing a challenge.
- nicoburns 2y ago
  I have a branch here https://github.com/servo/servo/pull/32619 https://github.com/servo/servo/pull/32619 that makes this significantly better (by greatly improving flexbox support and adding CSS grid support).
culi 2y ago
I'm assuming that's in reference to these tests? https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=experimental&label=master&aligned https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=experimental&label=master&ali... For comparison, there are 1.9 million tests Chrome passes 97.14% Edge passes 96.98 Firefox passes 95.96 Safari passes 95.22 I wonder where Ladybird stands in this
- fabrice_d 2y ago
  You can compare Servo and Ladybird results on wpt tests here: https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladyb...
  - culi 2y ago
    Oh thanks. Seems like Servo is way ahead of LadyBird
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad in comparison.
      - kevsim 2y ago
        FWIW Ladybird is also built by people with actual browser engine experience
        peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        Ladybird was mostly developed by one person (Andreas Kilng) with no financing whatsoever ,Servo was mostly developed by a team who was being paid with Mozilla money.
        webprofusion 2y ago
mminer237 2y ago
In my tests, it's pretty unusable atm. Probably half of websites render very wrong and servo crashes nonstop.
- Galanwe 2y ago
  It cannot crash its written in Rust.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    Rust can absolutely crash. It crashes ("panics" in Rust terminology) in a memory safe way but it's still a crash (please don't try to redefine the word "crash" to be more specific than it actually is). And Rust can still have unsafe code so it can crash in memory unsafe ways too (though it is very unlikely unless you're doing things very wrong).
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      > And Rust can still have unsafe code so it can crash in memory unsafe ways too (though it is very unlikely unless you're doing things very wrong). From when I grokked the code a bit (back in 2017) there was a non trivial amount of unsafe code, especially related to integration with SpiderMonkey (the js engine) so it wouldn't even be particularly surprising to see segfaults in servo, unlike most rust projects.
      - jeroenhd 2y ago
        Most crashes I've seen trying this out seem to stem from panics. As an end user I would call that a crash, but from a programmer standpoint you could say it's an unexpected normal shutdown.
    - silver_silver 2y ago
      I believe that was a joke
  - efilife 2y ago
jeroenhd 2y ago
I just compiled it following the Linux instructions. I honestly thought Servo was better than this. Maybe there's something up with the Linux builds? I'd much rather use Ladybird in all its pre-beta glory than this. There are two window title bars, one by the OS and one from the application. The text in the URL bar is misaligned and is shifted down by half its height. There's a black bar between the browser chrome and the web view. Entering a domain name without http or https and hitting enter crashes the entire application. Clicking refresh spawns a new window that sort-of-but-not-really shares the same website being rendered. Very few websites work. Anything with a cookie banner just plain breaks. I can't tell how to edit the URL bar after failing to load/loading a page. Google.com is very wonky. The search box on Google doesn't seem to take space bar for some reason. For the websites that do work, rendering is very fast and scrolling is pretty smooth. I can see the potential, but there's a lot of work to be done.
AndyKelley 2y ago
If it's anything like learning Japanese, it gets you approximately nowhere.

According to https://servo.org/about/ https://servo.org/about/ Servo currently passes ~60% of the web platform tests. Does anyone have experience how far that subset gets you on the open internet?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

timschmidt 2y ago

Hackernews and LWN render reasonably correctly in recent nightlies. Reddit does not.

jsheard 2y ago
New Reddit or Old Reddit?
- timschmidt 2y ago
  New Reddit. Old reddit seems to work OK.
  - spankalee 2y ago
    The newest Reddit - not the React version, but the Lit version that's replacing it - uses very, very modern HTML and JavaScript. I'd love to see Servo get to the point of rendering it correctly!
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      How many times are they going to rewrite the site? And how can you see the Lit versus React version, is there another link for it?
      - StrauXX 2y ago
        There is old.reddit.com, reddit.com and new.reddit.com. new.reddit.com is not the same site as reddit.com!
        CryZe 2y ago
        new.reddit.com seems to be an older layout than just reddit.com for me, one where most stuff still works (like video embeds).
        timeon 2y ago
        At least it is faster and seems to be less bug-y.
        culi 2y ago
        TIL. new.reddit seems to be a return to old.reddit in a lot of ways. It also seems really really fast unlike the current www.reddit. If they remove some annoying ads I might even be convinced to stop using old.
        bee_rider 2y ago
        The only downside is that new is still being developed. Old is nice because it is shielded from their post-success incompetence. Whatever bad ideas they decide to implement will hit new first.
        oblio 2y ago
        new.reddit seems almost... sane. Like they kicked out whoever pushed/implemented reddit aka the current version and figured out that old.reddit had a lot of virtues.
        jccalhoun 2y ago
        It is so crazy. I normally use "reddit.com" but a few weeks ago i followed a link to an article on "old.reddit.com" and saw I had notifications. I clicked the item and it was all notifications from days ago. So the read status of notifications on old reddit and current reddit aren't linked?
    - hypeatei 2y ago
      Pretty amazing how a company can overengineer a basic feed that displays images and text (and ads). New Reddit is a dumpster fire, can't imagine another rewrite is going to fix it.
      - BoredPositron 2y ago
        Yeah, I’ve never thought anyone could build a video player worse than realplayer but they achieved the impossible.
      - throwaway894345 2y ago
        Yeah, one of the weirder things is that if someone blocks you, you are not allowed to reply to any comment in the thread (for example, if someone posts a toplevel comment and doesn’t reply to anything, and you reply to some comment a dozen layers below and have an exchange with some third party, if the toplevel commenter blocks you, you can’t reply to anything including comments left by others in response to your own comment) and you get a generic “internal server error”-type pop up with no information about why the request failed. This is most likely a server “feature” and thus a rewrite of the frontend won’t fix it but it seems like at very least the frontend could display a sane error message (assuming the backend forwards some information about the cause of the error).
- d1sxeyes 2y ago
  New Reddit rendering “properly” is as useful as a chocolate fire guard. Do you want to view this content on the app? You Can Only View This Content In The App, THE APP is the WAY, JUST FUCKING DOWNLOAD THE APP!!! At least on mobile.
  - RamRodification 2y ago
    You will be registered, email verified and data mined or you can just go straight to hell.
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    Me: Okay fine, I'll download RedReader. Reddit: Wait no.
  - deergomoo 2y ago
    Can you imagine being on the team responsible for the mobile web Reddit experience? Having to implement a feature that tells every user, repeatedly, that their work is subpar and to please use something else.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cge 2y ago
Itappearsthatspacesdon'tworkformewhentyping,butitotherwiseseemsthatevencommentingonhnworksinVerso.Editingappearstoworkaswell,thoughlinebreaksdon't(maybebecauseofspaces...). Edit (with Firefox): the above text is from Verso. Logging in works (though the session is not stored across restarts), as does both commenting and editing comments. Since space can't seem to be entered, word wrapping doesn't work with text entered in Verso, though it does seem to work when there is text with spaces (eg, this edit). A cursor also doesn't appear for me, making editing a challenge.
nicoburns 2y ago
I have a branch here https://github.com/servo/servo/pull/32619 https://github.com/servo/servo/pull/32619 that makes this significantly better (by greatly improving flexbox support and adding CSS grid support).

culi 2y ago

I'm assuming that's in reference to these tests? https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=experimental&label=master&aligned https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=experimental&label=master&ali... For comparison, there are 1.9 million tests Chrome passes 97.14% Edge passes 96.98 Firefox passes 95.96 Safari passes 95.22 I wonder where Ladybird stands in this

fabrice_d 2y ago
You can compare Servo and Ladybird results on wpt tests here: https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladybird https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/?product=servo&product=ladyb...
- culi 2y ago
  Oh thanks. Seems like Servo is way ahead of LadyBird
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    Which isn't that surprising given it has been underway for much longer, and as built with people with actual browser engine experience. Ladybird isn't that bad in comparison.
    - kevsim 2y ago
      FWIW Ladybird is also built by people with actual browser engine experience
      - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        Ladybird was mostly developed by one person (Andreas Kilng) with no financing whatsoever ,Servo was mostly developed by a team who was being paid with Mozilla money.
        webprofusion 2y ago

mminer237 2y ago

In my tests, it's pretty unusable atm. Probably half of websites render very wrong and servo crashes nonstop.

Galanwe 2y ago
It cannot crash its written in Rust.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Rust can absolutely crash. It crashes ("panics" in Rust terminology) in a memory safe way but it's still a crash (please don't try to redefine the word "crash" to be more specific than it actually is). And Rust can still have unsafe code so it can crash in memory unsafe ways too (though it is very unlikely unless you're doing things very wrong).
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    > And Rust can still have unsafe code so it can crash in memory unsafe ways too (though it is very unlikely unless you're doing things very wrong). From when I grokked the code a bit (back in 2017) there was a non trivial amount of unsafe code, especially related to integration with SpiderMonkey (the js engine) so it wouldn't even be particularly surprising to see segfaults in servo, unlike most rust projects.
    - jeroenhd 2y ago
      Most crashes I've seen trying this out seem to stem from panics. As an end user I would call that a crash, but from a programmer standpoint you could say it's an unexpected normal shutdown.
  - silver_silver 2y ago
    I believe that was a joke
- efilife 2y ago

jeroenhd 2y ago

I just compiled it following the Linux instructions. I honestly thought Servo was better than this. Maybe there's something up with the Linux builds? I'd much rather use Ladybird in all its pre-beta glory than this. There are two window title bars, one by the OS and one from the application. The text in the URL bar is misaligned and is shifted down by half its height. There's a black bar between the browser chrome and the web view. Entering a domain name without http or https and hitting enter crashes the entire application. Clicking refresh spawns a new window that sort-of-but-not-really shares the same website being rendered. Very few websites work. Anything with a cookie banner just plain breaks. I can't tell how to edit the URL bar after failing to load/loading a page. Google.com is very wonky. The search box on Google doesn't seem to take space bar for some reason. For the websites that do work, rendering is very fast and scrolling is pretty smooth. I can see the potential, but there's a lot of work to be done.

AndyKelley 2y ago

If it's anything like learning Japanese, it gets you approximately nowhere.