4 ms·

Strongly beg to differ. Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I get it, I really do. But they often throw bike lanes into formal waiting lanes and then try to have both at the same time. It’s just crappy road design, and traffic officers have trouble figuring put what law should apply when they contradict each other. If the cops start fining drivers for reasonable things, then lots of people complain and the cops are told to back off. If you want bike lanes, get rid of parking and waiting lanes all together and physically protect or grade the lanes. Don’t half ass it and try to throw car traffic and bikes together in constant conflict. It doesn’t work out, and no amount of righteous fury will make it work out.
bobthepanda 2y ago
American law enforcement is highly variable and defers to the police officers’ individual judgments to write a ticket. In some American cities like NYC a lot of the moving and parking violations are actually cops, who don’t ticket each other out of solidarity even if not actually on the job, and they often don’t ticket people exhibiting similar behaviors that they do. The practice of illegally parking on a sidewalk by cops in NYC is so endemic the DOJ warned it might sue NYPD for a systematic violation of the ADA. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-with-lawsuit-over-sidewalk-parking/5340834/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-wit...
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  That reminds me of why Beijing traffic behavior is so much worse than Shanghai: Beijing is full up of powerful people or people connected to powerful people, so traffic rule enforcement is really risky unless done by machine or by the party police. Shanghai, in comparison, is just rich.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. This isn’t likely because there already is a police hiring shortfall in major urban areas despite lackluster traffic enforcement, and it would be impossible to find enough cops to police every single motor violation. But also, it would remove police discretionary power to turn a blind eye to friends, family and colleagues.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      There is a lot of pushback on camera enforcement because people don’t like getting tickets and US government doesn’t have that much power compared to say Australia or Canada. That’s not even considering police unions, they don’t have to lift a finger here since most Americans already won’t let it happen. Maybe if there is less public resistance, the police unions will have to chime in on the issue. We obviously can’t afford to pay cops $200k+ a year without a huge increase in productivity, and only tech can provide that. It’s only a matter of time for the Americans to come around to it.
    - bsder 2y ago
      > There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. There is pushback in the US because the cameras got installed as a profit making exercise instead of a safety improvement. Yellow-light cameras, for example, magically got installed on busy intersections instead of dangerous ones. And then the yellow light timings got trimmed down when they weren't making enough money.
      - bobthepanda 2y ago
        People repeat this but this really depends on where you were, and then people take these blanket arguments that don’t apply to other states’ traffic regulations. For example this would not be an issue in a state that enshrines the minimum time of a yellow light in state law, and these issues occurred in jurisdictions where that is not true. There are also two kinds of red light cameras; those to catch dangerous red light running, and those to catch violations of the “block the box” variety. The latter isn’t necessarily dangerous but does gum up traffic flow unnecessarily.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
> Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city But do they?

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

I get it, I really do. But they often throw bike lanes into formal waiting lanes and then try to have both at the same time. It’s just crappy road design, and traffic officers have trouble figuring put what law should apply when they contradict each other. If the cops start fining drivers for reasonable things, then lots of people complain and the cops are told to back off. If you want bike lanes, get rid of parking and waiting lanes all together and physically protect or grade the lanes. Don’t half ass it and try to throw car traffic and bikes together in constant conflict. It doesn’t work out, and no amount of righteous fury will make it work out.

bobthepanda 2y ago

American law enforcement is highly variable and defers to the police officers’ individual judgments to write a ticket. In some American cities like NYC a lot of the moving and parking violations are actually cops, who don’t ticket each other out of solidarity even if not actually on the job, and they often don’t ticket people exhibiting similar behaviors that they do. The practice of illegally parking on a sidewalk by cops in NYC is so endemic the DOJ warned it might sue NYPD for a systematic violation of the ADA. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-with-lawsuit-over-sidewalk-parking/5340834/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-wit...

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
That reminds me of why Beijing traffic behavior is so much worse than Shanghai: Beijing is full up of powerful people or people connected to powerful people, so traffic rule enforcement is really risky unless done by machine or by the party police. Shanghai, in comparison, is just rich.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. This isn’t likely because there already is a police hiring shortfall in major urban areas despite lackluster traffic enforcement, and it would be impossible to find enough cops to police every single motor violation. But also, it would remove police discretionary power to turn a blind eye to friends, family and colleagues.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    There is a lot of pushback on camera enforcement because people don’t like getting tickets and US government doesn’t have that much power compared to say Australia or Canada. That’s not even considering police unions, they don’t have to lift a finger here since most Americans already won’t let it happen. Maybe if there is less public resistance, the police unions will have to chime in on the issue. We obviously can’t afford to pay cops $200k+ a year without a huge increase in productivity, and only tech can provide that. It’s only a matter of time for the Americans to come around to it.
  - bsder 2y ago
    > There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. There is pushback in the US because the cameras got installed as a profit making exercise instead of a safety improvement. Yellow-light cameras, for example, magically got installed on busy intersections instead of dangerous ones. And then the yellow light timings got trimmed down when they weren't making enough money.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      People repeat this but this really depends on where you were, and then people take these blanket arguments that don’t apply to other states’ traffic regulations. For example this would not be an issue in a state that enshrines the minimum time of a yellow light in state law, and these issues occurred in jurisdictions where that is not true. There are also two kinds of red light cameras; those to catch dangerous red light running, and those to catch violations of the “block the box” variety. The latter isn’t necessarily dangerous but does gum up traffic flow unnecessarily.

pavel_lishin 2y ago

> Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city But do they?