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Wouldn’t human can be legally ticketed for stopping in the bike lane?

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Technically they should be. In practice they aren’t. Really, American cities just do bike lanes so wrong that everyone involved just throws up their hands and anything goes.
- internetter 2y ago
  Strongly beg to differ. Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    I get it, I really do. But they often throw bike lanes into formal waiting lanes and then try to have both at the same time. It’s just crappy road design, and traffic officers have trouble figuring put what law should apply when they contradict each other. If the cops start fining drivers for reasonable things, then lots of people complain and the cops are told to back off. If you want bike lanes, get rid of parking and waiting lanes all together and physically protect or grade the lanes. Don’t half ass it and try to throw car traffic and bikes together in constant conflict. It doesn’t work out, and no amount of righteous fury will make it work out.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    American law enforcement is highly variable and defers to the police officers’ individual judgments to write a ticket. In some American cities like NYC a lot of the moving and parking violations are actually cops, who don’t ticket each other out of solidarity even if not actually on the job, and they often don’t ticket people exhibiting similar behaviors that they do. The practice of illegally parking on a sidewalk by cops in NYC is so endemic the DOJ warned it might sue NYPD for a systematic violation of the ADA. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-with-lawsuit-over-sidewalk-parking/5340834/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-wit...
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      That reminds me of why Beijing traffic behavior is so much worse than Shanghai: Beijing is full up of powerful people or people connected to powerful people, so traffic rule enforcement is really risky unless done by machine or by the party police. Shanghai, in comparison, is just rich.
      - bobthepanda 2y ago
        There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. This isn’t likely because there already is a police hiring shortfall in major urban areas despite lackluster traffic enforcement, and it would be impossible to find enough cops to police every single motor violation. But also, it would remove police discretionary power to turn a blind eye to friends, family and colleagues.
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        There is a lot of pushback on camera enforcement because people don’t like getting tickets and US government doesn’t have that much power compared to say Australia or Canada. That’s not even considering police unions, they don’t have to lift a finger here since most Americans already won’t let it happen. Maybe if there is less public resistance, the police unions will have to chime in on the issue. We obviously can’t afford to pay cops $200k+ a year without a huge increase in productivity, and only tech can provide that. It’s only a matter of time for the Americans to come around to it.
        bsder 2y ago
        > There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. There is pushback in the US because the cameras got installed as a profit making exercise instead of a safety improvement. Yellow-light cameras, for example, magically got installed on busy intersections instead of dangerous ones. And then the yellow light timings got trimmed down when they weren't making enough money.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    > Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city But do they?
nox101 2y ago
double parking and stopping in bike lanes has become the norm in many American cities. It's illegal and it often causes accidents since it forces people to make dangerous lane changes and backs up traffic into intersections. But, the police are not enforcing it so here we are. Maybe we'll get AI driven police cars that film and ticket double parkers? I doubt it. What's extremely frustrating though is that double parking and stopping in bike lanes is so normalized that a driver will do it, even though there's free space they could have actually used with 1 or 2 car lengths or even right at the stop they're stopping. They just don't give a fuck and just stop in the lane to deliver a package etc...
- tim333 2y ago
  >Maybe we'll get AI driven police cars that film and ticket You don't really need that. London is covered by cameras that will pick that stuff up and send you a ticket in the post with a link to a photo of the offence.

Technically they should be. In practice they aren’t. Really, American cities just do bike lanes so wrong that everyone involved just throws up their hands and anything goes.

internetter 2y ago
Strongly beg to differ. Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  I get it, I really do. But they often throw bike lanes into formal waiting lanes and then try to have both at the same time. It’s just crappy road design, and traffic officers have trouble figuring put what law should apply when they contradict each other. If the cops start fining drivers for reasonable things, then lots of people complain and the cops are told to back off. If you want bike lanes, get rid of parking and waiting lanes all together and physically protect or grade the lanes. Don’t half ass it and try to throw car traffic and bikes together in constant conflict. It doesn’t work out, and no amount of righteous fury will make it work out.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  American law enforcement is highly variable and defers to the police officers’ individual judgments to write a ticket. In some American cities like NYC a lot of the moving and parking violations are actually cops, who don’t ticket each other out of solidarity even if not actually on the job, and they often don’t ticket people exhibiting similar behaviors that they do. The practice of illegally parking on a sidewalk by cops in NYC is so endemic the DOJ warned it might sue NYPD for a systematic violation of the ADA. https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-with-lawsuit-over-sidewalk-parking/5340834/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/doj-threatens-nypd-wit...
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    That reminds me of why Beijing traffic behavior is so much worse than Shanghai: Beijing is full up of powerful people or people connected to powerful people, so traffic rule enforcement is really risky unless done by machine or by the party police. Shanghai, in comparison, is just rich.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. This isn’t likely because there already is a police hiring shortfall in major urban areas despite lackluster traffic enforcement, and it would be impossible to find enough cops to police every single motor violation. But also, it would remove police discretionary power to turn a blind eye to friends, family and colleagues.
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        There is a lot of pushback on camera enforcement because people don’t like getting tickets and US government doesn’t have that much power compared to say Australia or Canada. That’s not even considering police unions, they don’t have to lift a finger here since most Americans already won’t let it happen. Maybe if there is less public resistance, the police unions will have to chime in on the issue. We obviously can’t afford to pay cops $200k+ a year without a huge increase in productivity, and only tech can provide that. It’s only a matter of time for the Americans to come around to it.
      - bsder 2y ago
        > There is pushback against automated camera enforcement in the US, partially because of worries of reducing union membership and power. There is pushback in the US because the cameras got installed as a profit making exercise instead of a safety improvement. Yellow-light cameras, for example, magically got installed on busy intersections instead of dangerous ones. And then the yellow light timings got trimmed down when they weren't making enough money.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  > Blocking a bike lane is $100 here, ticketing the lanes of cars parked in them can and should provide a nice revenue stream to the city But do they?

nox101 2y ago

double parking and stopping in bike lanes has become the norm in many American cities. It's illegal and it often causes accidents since it forces people to make dangerous lane changes and backs up traffic into intersections. But, the police are not enforcing it so here we are. Maybe we'll get AI driven police cars that film and ticket double parkers? I doubt it. What's extremely frustrating though is that double parking and stopping in bike lanes is so normalized that a driver will do it, even though there's free space they could have actually used with 1 or 2 car lengths or even right at the stop they're stopping. They just don't give a fuck and just stop in the lane to deliver a package etc...

tim333 2y ago
>Maybe we'll get AI driven police cars that film and ticket You don't really need that. London is covered by cameras that will pick that stuff up and send you a ticket in the post with a link to a photo of the offence.