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If society doesn't want vigilantes than it must take an active role in pursuing and punishing criminals.
by themaninthedark 2y ago
If society doesn't want vigilantes than it must take an active role in pursuing and punishing criminals.
- prmoustache 2y agoYou are saying it as if there was only one society with one juridiction.
- capnsalty 2y ago[flagged]
- _heimdall 2y agoAt least here in the US, I can say one of the last things we need is more people in jail or prison.
- justin_oaks 2y agoThe parent commenter said "pursue and punish", not "put in jail". There are other forms of punishment besides jail time. But really I'm more concerned that the scam organization is shut down, even if the main scammer isn't put behind bars. If nothing else, it'll slow down and reduce the scams.
- _heimdall 2y agoFair enough. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but at least in the US you will almost certainly spend a bit of time in a jail when being charged, booked, and arraigned. Given that we're talking about legal, rather than extra judicial, pursuit and punishment I would expect jail to be a part of that process.
- capnsalty 2y agoWe just need different people in jail. Release all the people who got caught with dime bags and lock up the people who steal money from seniors. Those are the actual monsters.
- thejazzman 2y agoThis feels like a really weird take to me. Like all crime should just be permitted because being a criminal has become mainstream? Innocent people in jail, or for controversial reasons, seems like its own issue entirely. Like the way too common attitude on this site rbat because some people are smart/resourceful enough not to be victimized, that somehow makes victims deserving for not being so fortunate. Why would anyone but a scammer/criminal want such a society to even exist. I'll go so far as to compare to to the holocaust, that somehow it's fine as long as they're not coming for you? "First they came for the vulnerable..."
- prepend 2y agoSociety does take an active role through police, fbi, etc etc Vigilantes are criminals too so society takes an active role in pursuing and punishing them as well.
- willcipriano 2y agoThat only works if you aren't in a: Anarcho-tyranny A stage of governmental dysfunction in which the state is anarchically hopeless at coping with large matters but ruthlessly tyrannical in the enforcement of small ones https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q64594123 https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q64594123 Then you get your door kicked in for not paying taxes on $50 venmo transaction, or saying the wrong thing online but when there is a school shooter (or presidential assassin) the cops wait for them to finish while they play with their phones.
- jazzyjackson 2y agothanks for that example, it really paints a picture of the impotence of the state, tho watching the video it's easy to blame the failure on the hundreds of individuals that didn't take action, but they are meant to be the vangaurd; we handed the monopoly on violence to these people and for what?
- UncleMeat 2y agoWhile it is true that the justice system is often used to disproportionately hurt the poor, nobody is getting their door kicked in for not paying taxes on a venmo transaction.
- shermantanktop 2y agoCivil forfeiture is roughly similar.
- UncleMeat 2y agoCivil asset forfeiture is indeed horrible and often used to basically just steal from the poor. It is also totally different than having your door kicked down for failing to pay taxes or being arrested for saying the wrong thing online.
- mcphage 2y agoIt’s difficult when the authorities over you have no jurisdiction over the criminals harming you.
- lupusreal 2y agoPrecisely correct. People have a natural right to receive justice, so IF the government abdicates its assumed responsibility to provide justice people have every moral and ethical right to enact justice themselves.
- spacebacon 2y agoPeople with every moral and ethical right to enact justice are the types that can acquire clearance and join various authorities in the pursuit. Vigilante’s don’t abide by the laws so aren’t well positioned to dispense justice in a non hypocritical way. Maybe carve out a low level clearance that gives grey hat types a little room for counter red team activity.
- lupusreal 2y agoPeople have a duty to defer the enactment of justice to the government only if there exists a government which fulfills their end of the deal. If no such government exists, then people are ethically and morally free to do it themselves.
- spacebacon 2y agoWho says no such government exist?
- lupusreal 2y agoA government which is effective at prosecuting phone scammers? That government doesn't exist in America. Victims who turn to vigilantism are therefore justified and the negative consequences of this are the responsibility of the government which is neglecting their duty to victims.
- spacebacon 2y agoAs much as I want to agree with you and become a beekeeper I still see holes in reasoning. Governments have prosecuted a number of sim swappers and sms scammers. They are not effective at doing this at volume in my opinion but that can be argued.