4 ms·

Has limiting the amount of asylum seekers or people coming over the border to claim asylum crossed your mind?

by georgeplusplus 2y ago

llamaimperative 2y ago
Considering that we already don't have enough workers, no. Has building more housing crossed your mind?
- lp0_on_fire 2y ago
  Come on. We’ve got plenty of workers in this country. They’re just not willing to work for pennies (and why should they?) Importing masses of unskilled labor puts downward pressure on wages. This is basic supply and demand.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    > We’ve got plenty of workers in this country. Citation needed > They’re just not willing to work for pennies What jobs pay pennies? > This is basic supply and demand In a universe where more people in the country doesn't also increase demand, sure. That's not the universe we live in though.
    - lp0_on_fire 2y ago
      Look at the unemployment numbers. “Pays Pennies” is a common English phrase that means “a job that doesn’t pay well”. I.e. jobs they pay at or slightly above the minimum wage. Why should native workers be displaced by those seeking asylum simply because the people seeking asylum are willing to work at OR BELOW minimum wage? I sympathize with their plight but to pretend that many of them aren’t economic migrants vs those who are actually fleeing imminent danger seems naive. And before the argument is made: I absolutely support crippling fines for those employers who KNOWINGLY hire under the table to skirt minimum wage laws.
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        The unemployment rate for US-born workers is literally the lowest it has ever been in history. You're going to need evidence, not thought experiments.
      - alborzb 2y ago
        Let's set the record straight. Here's an article that is well cited, with sources all linked within, from the Economic Policy Institute. https://www.epi.org/blog/immigrants-are-not-hurting-u-s-born-workers-six-facts-to-set-the-record-straight/ https://www.epi.org/blog/immigrants-are-not-hurting-u-s-born... >>1) The unemployment rate for U.S.-born workers is the lowest rate on record ( 3.6% ) >>2) The rate of U.S.-born individuals aged 25–54 with a job is at its highest rate in more than two decades >>3) Immigrants only make up 18.6% of the labor force. By any metric you look at , it become obviously clear that immigration is not causing high unemployment among U.S.-born workers.
stormbeard 2y ago
Wouldn’t it be easier and less controversial to just build more housing?
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  And more legal under the US Constitution and international law!
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Landowners get extremely hostile to the type of housing required to alleviate this problem and usually dies on the vine in any city council
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    I'm increasingly an advocate for removing public comment on planning meetings. Those who show up are too invested and those far away are too underinvested. It leads to warped city planning decisions.
    - mistrial9 2y ago
      without sunshine laws the process gets worse not better?
      - kelseyfrog 2y ago
        I'm a bit confused because I believe we can have transparency without community input. Compelling the system to speak is orthogonal to letting the community speak.
- georgeplusplus 2y ago
  Define easier. With whose capital would you like to build more houses with? The people coming over the border are doing so to escape poverty and harsh conditions from their respective country. I don’t think telling them to go buy a new house is gonna work at current US prices, and if you want the government to provide these new houses, then you really need to consider what the effect would be on inflation housing 9 million people at the current housing market would be.
feedforward 2y ago
That would mean lifting the Venezuela sanctions, Cuban embargo, and so on. I'm for it. The US has a dry foot policy specifically for Cuba, encouraging people to seek asylum in the US. The US involvement in Central America - from Honduras in 2009 and before that encouraged migration and asylum servers, but that bell is hard to unring.
xenadu02 2y ago
> Has limiting the amount of asylum seekers or people coming over the border to claim asylum crossed your mind The number of asylum seekers is a tiny proportion of overall immigration of all types so we can basically ignore it. Population vs housing imbalance in California is not driven by immigrants anyway. The bulk of those people are citizens born to citizens or green card holders. Even if you could stop illegal immigration and simultaneously remove all non-citizens and non-visa holders right now today... that only punts the problem down the road by less than a decade.
- georgeplusplus 2y ago
  The people that has crossed the border are seeking asylum and have been estimated to be in 9 million and probably has something significant to do with the 90% more hispanic population growth since it’s predominantly Latinos crossing. You don’t think that many people coming into the country has an impact on housing and rent prices?
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not someone who'd be taken in by that kind of demagoguery.

Has limiting the amount of asylum seekers or people coming over the border to claim asylum crossed your mind?

llamaimperative 2y ago

Considering that we already don't have enough workers, no. Has building more housing crossed your mind?

lp0_on_fire 2y ago
Come on. We’ve got plenty of workers in this country. They’re just not willing to work for pennies (and why should they?) Importing masses of unskilled labor puts downward pressure on wages. This is basic supply and demand.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  > We’ve got plenty of workers in this country. Citation needed > They’re just not willing to work for pennies What jobs pay pennies? > This is basic supply and demand In a universe where more people in the country doesn't also increase demand, sure. That's not the universe we live in though.
  - lp0_on_fire 2y ago
    Look at the unemployment numbers. “Pays Pennies” is a common English phrase that means “a job that doesn’t pay well”. I.e. jobs they pay at or slightly above the minimum wage. Why should native workers be displaced by those seeking asylum simply because the people seeking asylum are willing to work at OR BELOW minimum wage? I sympathize with their plight but to pretend that many of them aren’t economic migrants vs those who are actually fleeing imminent danger seems naive. And before the argument is made: I absolutely support crippling fines for those employers who KNOWINGLY hire under the table to skirt minimum wage laws.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      The unemployment rate for US-born workers is literally the lowest it has ever been in history. You're going to need evidence, not thought experiments.
    - alborzb 2y ago
      Let's set the record straight. Here's an article that is well cited, with sources all linked within, from the Economic Policy Institute. https://www.epi.org/blog/immigrants-are-not-hurting-u-s-born-workers-six-facts-to-set-the-record-straight/ https://www.epi.org/blog/immigrants-are-not-hurting-u-s-born... >>1) The unemployment rate for U.S.-born workers is the lowest rate on record ( 3.6% ) >>2) The rate of U.S.-born individuals aged 25–54 with a job is at its highest rate in more than two decades >>3) Immigrants only make up 18.6% of the labor force. By any metric you look at , it become obviously clear that immigration is not causing high unemployment among U.S.-born workers.

stormbeard 2y ago

Wouldn’t it be easier and less controversial to just build more housing?

llamaimperative 2y ago
And more legal under the US Constitution and international law!
JohnMakin 2y ago
Landowners get extremely hostile to the type of housing required to alleviate this problem and usually dies on the vine in any city council
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  I'm increasingly an advocate for removing public comment on planning meetings. Those who show up are too invested and those far away are too underinvested. It leads to warped city planning decisions.
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    without sunshine laws the process gets worse not better?
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      I'm a bit confused because I believe we can have transparency without community input. Compelling the system to speak is orthogonal to letting the community speak.
georgeplusplus 2y ago
Define easier. With whose capital would you like to build more houses with? The people coming over the border are doing so to escape poverty and harsh conditions from their respective country. I don’t think telling them to go buy a new house is gonna work at current US prices, and if you want the government to provide these new houses, then you really need to consider what the effect would be on inflation housing 9 million people at the current housing market would be.

feedforward 2y ago

That would mean lifting the Venezuela sanctions, Cuban embargo, and so on. I'm for it. The US has a dry foot policy specifically for Cuba, encouraging people to seek asylum in the US. The US involvement in Central America - from Honduras in 2009 and before that encouraged migration and asylum servers, but that bell is hard to unring.

xenadu02 2y ago

> Has limiting the amount of asylum seekers or people coming over the border to claim asylum crossed your mind The number of asylum seekers is a tiny proportion of overall immigration of all types so we can basically ignore it. Population vs housing imbalance in California is not driven by immigrants anyway. The bulk of those people are citizens born to citizens or green card holders. Even if you could stop illegal immigration and simultaneously remove all non-citizens and non-visa holders right now today... that only punts the problem down the road by less than a decade.

georgeplusplus 2y ago
The people that has crossed the border are seeking asylum and have been estimated to be in 9 million and probably has something significant to do with the 90% more hispanic population growth since it’s predominantly Latinos crossing. You don’t think that many people coming into the country has an impact on housing and rent prices?

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not someone who'd be taken in by that kind of demagoguery.