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How many of those happened before testing and certification was completed?

deleted 2y ago
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cwillu 2y ago
If you count the ones from before certification was complete, then there was one more than I counted. A baker's dozen instead of an even dozen launches. https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/nasa-and-spacex-complete-certification-of-first-human-rated-commercial-space-system/ https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/nasa-and-spacex-complet... “The Crew Dragon, including the Falcon 9 rocket and associated ground systems, is the first new, crew spacecraft to be NASA-certified for regular flights with astronauts since the space shuttle nearly 40 years ago. Several critical events paved the way for this achievement, including grounds tests, simulations, uncrewed flight tests and NASA’s SpaceX Demo-2 test flight with astronauts Robert Behnken and Douglas Hurley earlier this year.” [from 2020] Dragon did test flights demonstrating that the systems worked, Starliner has so far only done test flights demonstrating that the systems do not, plus a pinky promise that it'll work the next time. We do not know if, say, the abort system works, because the only time it was subjected to a full test, it failed. This is not a matter of SpaceX not having experience building human-rated craft and trying to get unearned credit for competence, this is a matter of Boeing trying to use their history to get unearned credit.
- itishappy 2y ago
  In the context of standards used for certification, I would count only flights from before certification was complete. There was one flight with two crew to the ISS: the same test Starliner is currently attempting. I agree with your analysis that Boeing does not deserve to have lowered standards. I'm suggesting that neither did Crew Dragon before certification. I'm not suggesting their systems or records are comparable, I'm simply arguing that unproven systems should be tested rigorously before being certified for human-rated spaceflight.
splitstud 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

If you count the ones from before certification was complete, then there was one more than I counted. A baker's dozen instead of an even dozen launches. https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/nasa-and-spacex-complete-certification-of-first-human-rated-commercial-space-system/ https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/nasa-and-spacex-complet... “The Crew Dragon, including the Falcon 9 rocket and associated ground systems, is the first new, crew spacecraft to be NASA-certified for regular flights with astronauts since the space shuttle nearly 40 years ago. Several critical events paved the way for this achievement, including grounds tests, simulations, uncrewed flight tests and NASA’s SpaceX Demo-2 test flight with astronauts Robert Behnken and Douglas Hurley earlier this year.” [from 2020] Dragon did test flights demonstrating that the systems worked, Starliner has so far only done test flights demonstrating that the systems do not, plus a pinky promise that it'll work the next time. We do not know if, say, the abort system works, because the only time it was subjected to a full test, it failed. This is not a matter of SpaceX not having experience building human-rated craft and trying to get unearned credit for competence, this is a matter of Boeing trying to use their history to get unearned credit.

itishappy 2y ago
In the context of standards used for certification, I would count only flights from before certification was complete. There was one flight with two crew to the ISS: the same test Starliner is currently attempting. I agree with your analysis that Boeing does not deserve to have lowered standards. I'm suggesting that neither did Crew Dragon before certification. I'm not suggesting their systems or records are comparable, I'm simply arguing that unproven systems should be tested rigorously before being certified for human-rated spaceflight.

splitstud 2y ago

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