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> Everyone working at these companies: you're partly to blame, whether you're directly involved or not. Reconsider the behavior you're supporting, and quit. I

> Everyone working at these companies: you're partly to blame, whether you're directly involved or not. Reconsider the behavior you're supporting, and quit. I used to think like this, until I got married and started a family. I’m no longer so quick to judge folks for not doing what I believe to be the most ideal (or even ethical) thing in these types of circumstances. For many of us who have families, our top priority is making sure we can continue to take care of our households and not risking that in any way unless absolutely necessary.

kayodelycaon 2y ago
This is also true of people with chronic medical conditions or disabilities. I don’t know if the next company’s insurance will cover my doctors or my medication. Getting a job while having an obvious disability puts you at a disadvantage, regardless of discrimination being illegal.
ndriscoll 2y ago
There are tons of tech jobs out there. That excuse doesn't work so well when you're in one of the most lucrative careers there is. Creating a dystopia where everyone is spied upon 24/7 is also not something someone with kids should want to do.
- dartos 2y ago
  There _were_ tons of tech jobs. Much harder to jump ship nowadays since layoffs have flood the market with high skilled job seekers and borrowing money is no longer free for tech firms. Life is complicated, employees can be just as much locked in to their jobs at Google as most people are to their products.
  - jay-barronville 2y ago
    Exactly. I was about to respond with something similar, but you did it for me! Not only are folks getting laid off left and right, salaries have gone down significantly and it’s very difficult to secure a new job in this market (no matter your skills, experience, etc.).
  - ndriscoll 2y ago
    There are still tons of jobs. They might not pay as well, but "I need to provide for my kids" might mean you take a crappy IT job that pays 60k, not that you build global surveillance/propaganda systems to be used against them and their peers. This isn't the depression. And up until recently, there were tons of really good jobs. What's the excuse there? If you have kids, you're presumably a few years into your career. Do you not have savings? My oldest is 3 and I wouldn't really have to start worrying for years if I lost my job.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      Forgetting about pay, are those jobs intellectually stimulating? Do straight conventional E commerce compared to testing infrastructure for video conferencing software? A lot of the appeal of a FAANG is the interesting work you can do at one. The only thing better would be a less secure startup working on something really novel.
      - ndriscoll 2y ago
        So now instead of "I need to do it for my family to survive", it's "I enjoy building panopticons"?
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        hmmm, hopefully you can find a job that does both? Feed the family and is something that is fun to do. If you are a social justice warrior, you might prioritize that instead. To each their own.
        vel0city 2y ago
        > I enjoy building panopticons > hopefully you can find a job that does both? Hopefully we quit building panopticons?
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
fedeb95 2y ago
That's why we need regulations. Against people actually to blame, but also against ourselves. Basically, just so that being unethical isn't profitable for anyone.

kayodelycaon 2y ago

This is also true of people with chronic medical conditions or disabilities. I don’t know if the next company’s insurance will cover my doctors or my medication. Getting a job while having an obvious disability puts you at a disadvantage, regardless of discrimination being illegal.

ndriscoll 2y ago

There are tons of tech jobs out there. That excuse doesn't work so well when you're in one of the most lucrative careers there is. Creating a dystopia where everyone is spied upon 24/7 is also not something someone with kids should want to do.

dartos 2y ago
There _were_ tons of tech jobs. Much harder to jump ship nowadays since layoffs have flood the market with high skilled job seekers and borrowing money is no longer free for tech firms. Life is complicated, employees can be just as much locked in to their jobs at Google as most people are to their products.
- jay-barronville 2y ago
  Exactly. I was about to respond with something similar, but you did it for me! Not only are folks getting laid off left and right, salaries have gone down significantly and it’s very difficult to secure a new job in this market (no matter your skills, experience, etc.).
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  There are still tons of jobs. They might not pay as well, but "I need to provide for my kids" might mean you take a crappy IT job that pays 60k, not that you build global surveillance/propaganda systems to be used against them and their peers. This isn't the depression. And up until recently, there were tons of really good jobs. What's the excuse there? If you have kids, you're presumably a few years into your career. Do you not have savings? My oldest is 3 and I wouldn't really have to start worrying for years if I lost my job.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    Forgetting about pay, are those jobs intellectually stimulating? Do straight conventional E commerce compared to testing infrastructure for video conferencing software? A lot of the appeal of a FAANG is the interesting work you can do at one. The only thing better would be a less secure startup working on something really novel.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      So now instead of "I need to do it for my family to survive", it's "I enjoy building panopticons"?
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        hmmm, hopefully you can find a job that does both? Feed the family and is something that is fun to do. If you are a social justice warrior, you might prioritize that instead. To each their own.
        vel0city 2y ago
        > I enjoy building panopticons > hopefully you can find a job that does both? Hopefully we quit building panopticons?
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago

fedeb95 2y ago

That's why we need regulations. Against people actually to blame, but also against ourselves. Basically, just so that being unethical isn't profitable for anyone.