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In my opinion, if you are going position yourself as a neutral arbiter of device repairability, it does not pass the smell test to enter into for-profit busines

In my opinion, if you are going position yourself as a neutral arbiter of device repairability, it does not pass the smell test to enter into for-profit business relationships with the companies manufacturing the devices you rate. Providing consumers with information on where to find reputable companies selling repair parts would be a much more palatable alternative to selling them yourself. > “I don’t know why Samsung insists on charging so much for service parts,” Wiens says, visibly frustrated. “The prices that we see are out of line with what we know components actually cost to manufacture.” Wiens starts to elaborate but stops himself. He clarifies that he would love to discuss this more, but his contract with Samsung prevents him from doing so. In this case, the for-profit business relationship with Samsung also stands in the way of advocating for consumers.

diffeomorphism 2y ago
I would argue the opposite. They are not aiming to be a neutral arbiter but an active advocate for better repairability. For that they should have for-profit business relationships with basically all companies manufacturing such devices. In particular, that would allow them to pressure or drop any one misbehaving company. > Providing consumers with information on where to find reputable companies selling repair parts would be a much more palatable alternative to selling them yourself. That does not really make sense. They are a repair company and the only company selling specialized parts is, of course, the manufacturer. > also stands in the way of advocating for consumers. That is much too bleak. They made a deal happen in the first place, which is large progress even if it did not quite work out, and compromises are a fact of life.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
brookst 2y ago
Agreed that for-profit relationships are inappropriate, and I also think iFixit’s business selling repair tools and parts is inappropriate. The whole thing comes across as self-promotion for their tools/parts business. Add in their dabbling in lobbying for regulations to force manufacturers to make devices that you can buy ifixit (and other) kits for… and it starts to feel as disingenuous as Epic’s “pro-consumer” interest in outlawing the razors/blades business model that game consoles use.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Unfortunately finding high quality repair tools for these class of devices is very hard, and iFixit provides pretty high quality sets with great reusability. While working on small screws like torque or pentalobe, you either have crappy drivers or Wera. iFixit is the provider of "good but not Wera" class tools which most DIYers and even professionals can use without any problems. Wera is "The Purveyor of Top Notch Tools", so that even companies like Apple and BMW use/supply their tools in their factories and repair centers, however they're out of reach for many people.
  - mauvehaus 2y ago
    This 100%. Common tools you can at least find in a couple different grades. Klein, for example, makes Philips screwdrivers that are hugely better than commodity ones and are available anywhere that sells to electricians (hint: go to the electrical aisle at Home Depot for the Kleins). Allen wrenches are easier to screw up than you might think, but you can usually find some with a cut end rather than a sheared end if you look. Get into Torx, and you still have choices in the sizes used for construction screws. Get beyond that and you've got very little. iFixit fills that void. You're ordering anyway, and it's nice to have some options that are quality without being super expensive professional grade. Like, I'll use a pentalobe screwdriver a couple times in my life. I need it to work, but it doesn't have to be Wera levels of good or ergonomic. Interchangeable bits are totally ok for my use case; I don't need dedicated drivers in every size.
- indymike 2y ago
  > dabbling in lobbying for regulations to force manufacturers to make devices that you can buy ifixit (and other) kits... feel as disingenuous Availability of parts and tools is critical to being able to repair anything and iFixit's entire business is based on repair. Strategies restricting parts and tools as a moat protecting repair and secondary (used) markets should rightfully be illegal. Lobbying for this, especially when your business is repair and repair supplies, is self-preservation, and not lobbying against forces trying to put your business out of business is... irresponsible.
- tempfile 2y ago
anoncow 2y ago
I disagree. We need more companies like iFixit who advocate for repair. If they are for profit, so be it. A non profit doing the same would also be good, but more the merrier.
- ddingus 2y ago
  They should absolutely be for profit. How else would the skills and information needed be obtained and maintained? Doing these things is not cheap! Just tooling can surprise one thinking about this activity. In fact, the more for profit repair centers there are, the better. Back when things came with some expectation about service, one could find shops all over the place able to do services. I learned a lot about how to repair and setup CRT Televisions from one back in the 70's when... I WAS A 6TH GRADER IN PRIMARY SCHOOL! No joke. The shop was right across the street. Before high school I was reflowing circuits and boards, testing and replacing tubes, other components and could do a basic bring up on a new CRT. Skills I used in high school for date money. It is crazy how far away from that we have come.
rob74 2y ago
Well yeah, you have to read between the lines a bit, but it's pretty obvious: Samsung prefers customers throwing away old phones (especially cheaper ones) and buying new phones (preferably Samsung, and preferably more expensive ones), that's why replacement parts are more expensive (and disproportionately more expensive for cheaper phones). Of course they are glad if they can have some positive press releases about sustainability thanks to a gullible repairability website, but when it comes to actually put it into practice, their enthusiasm evaporates very quickly...
chuckadams 2y ago
Seems much simpler than that to me: iFixit isn’t an advocacy group, they’re in the business of selling parts directly to consumers, and they’re calling out what looks to be an outrageous markup from the sole supplier. Any advocacy they do is in support of their business. They’re a free market solution demanding a freer market.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  The sole supplier is using the free market to set its pricing, limit its warehousing overhead, and drive sales of new products. Don't like it, buy something else.
  - pixl97 2y ago
    There are multiple options that can be explored at the same time. Sticking with an absolutists idea is far more apt to end in failure. Support right to repair!
  - edmundsauto 2y ago
    This results in less repair ability and more waste. It also probably boosts economic activity. Withholding any moral judgement, I do think these current incentives contribute to a direction we don’t want society to go. Feels like we should fix the incentives here to encourage reuse.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    >Don't like it, buy something else. Sure, but you're allowed to not be happy about it and to criticize the supplier.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    It sounds like you're saying "buy something else, and that's all you should do", but loudly discussing these things is part of making "buy something else" have a chance of being effective. Also, I like repairability laws here too even if some people don't.
barryrandall 2y ago
Access to parts and repair information usually requires entering in to some sort of business relationship. Especially when highly regulated components (radios, telephones) are involved.
snapcaster 2y ago
I want my advocates to have skin in the game, I assume "neutral" just means "undisclosed private agenda". Put your money on the table!
- malfist 2y ago
  This is a very cynical take. People and organizations can be neutral with ulterior motives
  - xeromal 2y ago
    > People and organizations can be neutral with ulterior motives Doesn't this mean exactly what the person you're replying to said?
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      I assume they meant "without" instead of "with".
    - malfist 2y ago
      Typo and too late to edit. I meant to say without
  - thevillagechief 2y ago
    They can. But more often than not, you end up with OpenAI. I'd rather we just straight-up skip to business, and go the Anthropic Public Benefit route.
fallat 2y ago
wtf, for-profit business absolutely has the potential for proper incentive alignment to achieve a goal.
dangus 2y ago
I disagree. iFixit offering original OEM spare parts for the Steam Deck is amazing. It's mutually beneficial: iFixit handles a service business that Valve would rather not be in, and customers get a more repairable product. It's also a source of revenue for iFixit that is probably more reliable than depending on advertising or selling tools. A similar deal with Samsung or another phone maker would be amazing.
- robnado 2y ago
  This works for Steam because the Steam Deck is a low margin device they sell to ensure they can’t be shut out of their profitable business of selling games by microsoft and apple. To Steam, having a customer use the same steam deck for 10 years is not a big loss of revenue and supports their business goals. Meanwhile, Samsung making repairs cheaper means they are cannibalising the sale of new devices which is their main source of profit and growth.
  - dangus 2y ago
    I disagree that Samsung’s main source of profit and growth for their smartphone business is the smartphones themselves, at least if we zoom out to the long term. Those are commoditized hardware devices. Each new generation of phone is less compelling than the current one because the product is essentially “done,” much like a microwave or toaster. Samsung will make more money from you if they can sell you cloud services and other ecosystem stuff, just like Apple does with their platform. Just look at how much revenue Apple’s services business brings in as a proportion of their business, at a much better margin than hardware sales. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-revenue-of-apple/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-re... Services are rapidly growing as a proportion of Apple’s electronics business and I suspect that Samsung is similar if they’re playing their cards right. There’s going to be a point where Samsung really doesn’t care if you have an old phone or not, as long as you are using Samsung services for your digital life.
    - kroolik 2y ago
      Link requires premium account to read the actual data
robertlagrant 2y ago
> it does not pass the smell test to enter into for-profit business relationships with the companies manufacturing the devices you rate This is too shallow. Yes, it's possible that this can go wrong. Doesn't mean it will. If they're showing you on video how easy or hard it is to repair something, that doesn't leave a lot of room for the sort of thing you're hinting at.

diffeomorphism 2y ago

I would argue the opposite. They are not aiming to be a neutral arbiter but an active advocate for better repairability. For that they should have for-profit business relationships with basically all companies manufacturing such devices. In particular, that would allow them to pressure or drop any one misbehaving company. > Providing consumers with information on where to find reputable companies selling repair parts would be a much more palatable alternative to selling them yourself. That does not really make sense. They are a repair company and the only company selling specialized parts is, of course, the manufacturer. > also stands in the way of advocating for consumers. That is much too bleak. They made a deal happen in the first place, which is large progress even if it did not quite work out, and compromises are a fact of life.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

brookst 2y ago

Agreed that for-profit relationships are inappropriate, and I also think iFixit’s business selling repair tools and parts is inappropriate. The whole thing comes across as self-promotion for their tools/parts business. Add in their dabbling in lobbying for regulations to force manufacturers to make devices that you can buy ifixit (and other) kits for… and it starts to feel as disingenuous as Epic’s “pro-consumer” interest in outlawing the razors/blades business model that game consoles use.

bayindirh 2y ago
Unfortunately finding high quality repair tools for these class of devices is very hard, and iFixit provides pretty high quality sets with great reusability. While working on small screws like torque or pentalobe, you either have crappy drivers or Wera. iFixit is the provider of "good but not Wera" class tools which most DIYers and even professionals can use without any problems. Wera is "The Purveyor of Top Notch Tools", so that even companies like Apple and BMW use/supply their tools in their factories and repair centers, however they're out of reach for many people.
- mauvehaus 2y ago
  This 100%. Common tools you can at least find in a couple different grades. Klein, for example, makes Philips screwdrivers that are hugely better than commodity ones and are available anywhere that sells to electricians (hint: go to the electrical aisle at Home Depot for the Kleins). Allen wrenches are easier to screw up than you might think, but you can usually find some with a cut end rather than a sheared end if you look. Get into Torx, and you still have choices in the sizes used for construction screws. Get beyond that and you've got very little. iFixit fills that void. You're ordering anyway, and it's nice to have some options that are quality without being super expensive professional grade. Like, I'll use a pentalobe screwdriver a couple times in my life. I need it to work, but it doesn't have to be Wera levels of good or ergonomic. Interchangeable bits are totally ok for my use case; I don't need dedicated drivers in every size.
indymike 2y ago
> dabbling in lobbying for regulations to force manufacturers to make devices that you can buy ifixit (and other) kits... feel as disingenuous Availability of parts and tools is critical to being able to repair anything and iFixit's entire business is based on repair. Strategies restricting parts and tools as a moat protecting repair and secondary (used) markets should rightfully be illegal. Lobbying for this, especially when your business is repair and repair supplies, is self-preservation, and not lobbying against forces trying to put your business out of business is... irresponsible.
tempfile 2y ago

anoncow 2y ago

I disagree. We need more companies like iFixit who advocate for repair. If they are for profit, so be it. A non profit doing the same would also be good, but more the merrier.

ddingus 2y ago
They should absolutely be for profit. How else would the skills and information needed be obtained and maintained? Doing these things is not cheap! Just tooling can surprise one thinking about this activity. In fact, the more for profit repair centers there are, the better. Back when things came with some expectation about service, one could find shops all over the place able to do services. I learned a lot about how to repair and setup CRT Televisions from one back in the 70's when... I WAS A 6TH GRADER IN PRIMARY SCHOOL! No joke. The shop was right across the street. Before high school I was reflowing circuits and boards, testing and replacing tubes, other components and could do a basic bring up on a new CRT. Skills I used in high school for date money. It is crazy how far away from that we have come.

rob74 2y ago

Well yeah, you have to read between the lines a bit, but it's pretty obvious: Samsung prefers customers throwing away old phones (especially cheaper ones) and buying new phones (preferably Samsung, and preferably more expensive ones), that's why replacement parts are more expensive (and disproportionately more expensive for cheaper phones). Of course they are glad if they can have some positive press releases about sustainability thanks to a gullible repairability website, but when it comes to actually put it into practice, their enthusiasm evaporates very quickly...

chuckadams 2y ago

Seems much simpler than that to me: iFixit isn’t an advocacy group, they’re in the business of selling parts directly to consumers, and they’re calling out what looks to be an outrageous markup from the sole supplier. Any advocacy they do is in support of their business. They’re a free market solution demanding a freer market.

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
The sole supplier is using the free market to set its pricing, limit its warehousing overhead, and drive sales of new products. Don't like it, buy something else.
- pixl97 2y ago
  There are multiple options that can be explored at the same time. Sticking with an absolutists idea is far more apt to end in failure. Support right to repair!
- edmundsauto 2y ago
  This results in less repair ability and more waste. It also probably boosts economic activity. Withholding any moral judgement, I do think these current incentives contribute to a direction we don’t want society to go. Feels like we should fix the incentives here to encourage reuse.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Suppafly 2y ago
  >Don't like it, buy something else. Sure, but you're allowed to not be happy about it and to criticize the supplier.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  It sounds like you're saying "buy something else, and that's all you should do", but loudly discussing these things is part of making "buy something else" have a chance of being effective. Also, I like repairability laws here too even if some people don't.

barryrandall 2y ago

Access to parts and repair information usually requires entering in to some sort of business relationship. Especially when highly regulated components (radios, telephones) are involved.

snapcaster 2y ago

I want my advocates to have skin in the game, I assume "neutral" just means "undisclosed private agenda". Put your money on the table!

malfist 2y ago
This is a very cynical take. People and organizations can be neutral with ulterior motives
- xeromal 2y ago
  > People and organizations can be neutral with ulterior motives Doesn't this mean exactly what the person you're replying to said?
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    I assume they meant "without" instead of "with".
  - malfist 2y ago
    Typo and too late to edit. I meant to say without
- thevillagechief 2y ago
  They can. But more often than not, you end up with OpenAI. I'd rather we just straight-up skip to business, and go the Anthropic Public Benefit route.

fallat 2y ago

wtf, for-profit business absolutely has the potential for proper incentive alignment to achieve a goal.

dangus 2y ago

I disagree. iFixit offering original OEM spare parts for the Steam Deck is amazing. It's mutually beneficial: iFixit handles a service business that Valve would rather not be in, and customers get a more repairable product. It's also a source of revenue for iFixit that is probably more reliable than depending on advertising or selling tools. A similar deal with Samsung or another phone maker would be amazing.

robnado 2y ago
This works for Steam because the Steam Deck is a low margin device they sell to ensure they can’t be shut out of their profitable business of selling games by microsoft and apple. To Steam, having a customer use the same steam deck for 10 years is not a big loss of revenue and supports their business goals. Meanwhile, Samsung making repairs cheaper means they are cannibalising the sale of new devices which is their main source of profit and growth.
- dangus 2y ago
  I disagree that Samsung’s main source of profit and growth for their smartphone business is the smartphones themselves, at least if we zoom out to the long term. Those are commoditized hardware devices. Each new generation of phone is less compelling than the current one because the product is essentially “done,” much like a microwave or toaster. Samsung will make more money from you if they can sell you cloud services and other ecosystem stuff, just like Apple does with their platform. Just look at how much revenue Apple’s services business brings in as a proportion of their business, at a much better margin than hardware sales. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-revenue-of-apple/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-re... Services are rapidly growing as a proportion of Apple’s electronics business and I suspect that Samsung is similar if they’re playing their cards right. There’s going to be a point where Samsung really doesn’t care if you have an old phone or not, as long as you are using Samsung services for your digital life.
  - kroolik 2y ago
    Link requires premium account to read the actual data

robertlagrant 2y ago

> it does not pass the smell test to enter into for-profit business relationships with the companies manufacturing the devices you rate This is too shallow. Yes, it's possible that this can go wrong. Doesn't mean it will. If they're showing you on video how easy or hard it is to repair something, that doesn't leave a lot of room for the sort of thing you're hinting at.