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The Well-Off People Who Can't Spend Money
- jph00 2y agohttps://archive.is/WEX1n https://archive.is/WEX1n
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoIf anyone is old enough to have had parents or grandparents who went through The Depression (or The Holocaust), this sounds familiar.
- jjtheblunt 2y agoyep (also works for kids / grandkids of poor immigrants, i'd say)
- stubish 2y agoParents growing up post World War 2 in places with rationing like UK, too.
- jives 2y agoMy grandpa lived through the depression. As a kid, I noticed he would meticulously clean every scrap of food off his plate. My mom explained what they'd lived through and how he couldn't bring himself to waste anything.
- josefritzishere 2y agoNever assume the good times will last. Save. Live reasonably. If you get lucky and the good times do last, reap the benefits and retire early and comfortably.
- drooby 2y agoThis absolutely describes me.. I seriously can't find anything that is worth buying that actually makes me happier. Travel is great, and probably where the bulk of my money goes. But it's temporary, and the expense is limited by my vacation time and doesn't scale that much. So I save.. and eventually I will be able to buy time. Maybe with more time I can figure out something to make me happier.
- NKosmatos 2y agoSad to hear this. Don’t you have any hobbies or interests? Perhaps being a little bit materialistic every now and then doesn’t hurt much. i.e. Get a better PC to play games, buy a better camera/lens to go out and take photos, get a bike to go for rides, you get the idea… I know that things don’t make us happy, but the usage of them, the memories we create and the time we spent using them, many times makes us happy ;-)
- alecst 2y agoI relate to the persona above you. I have plenty of hobbies, and almost all of them are free or cheap. I don't need a better laptop than what I have, I don't need an expensive bike to enjoy riding around, I don't need better running shoes -- or any shoes -- to go for a nice long run. The high of having the shiny new thing wears off. Recently I got rid of my bed, entirely. I had an expensive latex mattress, but I realized I enjoy sleeping right on the floor. It's firmer, cooler, and easier to maintain. It's just one of the many cases where I realized that less was more.
- gwervc 2y agoSame here. My hobbies include learning languages, which thanks to the internet can be done for free. Same for reading research papers, programming stuff, etc. I walk instead of taking public transportation because I like it, it's free and good for health. I eat at home most of the time and depending on season I prefer meeting friends outside instead of going to a bat. The only thing I'm finding spending a bit too much on is cards (Magic, Pokémon), but it's still less than 100€/month on average. On thing I noticed is that acquiring an object call for more objects. Let's say buying a new phone. It then need a case. The charger norm changed so an adaptator is need. We are already at 3 new objects instead of one, and all of that need to be stored somewhere (with may require a new box). I find myself more often than not taking pleasure into not buying things.
- makeitdouble 2y agoDepending on your hobbies that will require enjoying buying new things, which is not a given. For instance if you're into photography, better gear can give more pleasant results. But if you already have a decently good setup, buying something better will require extensive research, comparison, probably a trip or two to a store to see the gear in person, potentially rent it for a few days to see how it handles etc. If you enjoy the whole process you'll be happy to buy new gear, but if you only cared about actually taking photos, the time you spent to get incrementally better gear might not pay off in actual enjoyment of the hobby.
- cs702 2y agoThese three observations from the OP are consistent with my own: * Many people who spend well below their means experienced financial precariousness earlier in life. * They may no longer be poor, but the stress of deprivation is never far from their memory. * Concerns about spending are a preemptive response to make sure they never find themselves overspending.
- rgblambda 2y agoThe OP spelled out a lot of my own behaviours when it comes to spending money, but I didn't grow up poor. My parents did though. I definitely feel that my attitudes around spending come from them. Ironically, they're often keen to tell me to spend my own money and enjoy my life, but aren't good at taking their own advice. Easier to spot flaws in others than in yourself I suppose.
- therealdrag0 2y agoThanks for giving me hope that I can impart some thriftiness in my children.
- sys_64738 2y agoI don’t even think it’s that. Being poor growing up is something you take into adulthood and your decisions are not about not spending the money. You simply don’t even consider it.
- therealdkz 2y ago[flagged]
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- therealdkz 2y ago[flagged]
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- pphysch 2y agoConspicuous consumption should be shamed, not the other way around as this article does.
- scandox 2y agoMaybe everyone should just mind their own business?
- therealdkz 2y agoIncluding the author?
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y agoI reserve the right to shame socially irresponsible behavior. Just sayin'.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- stubish 2y agoYet a financial problem my country has is generational wealth transfer, with wealthy kids inheriting large amounts from wealthy parents who did not spend enough.
- bill_joy_fanboy 2y agoI fail to understand why this is a problem. One of the reasons I save money is so that my children will have financial security lasting beyond my lifetime.
- stubish 2y agoIt is making income disparity worse and causing problems to the larger economy, such as contributing to ballooning housing prices. Wealth accumulates with the retired and elderly, with children generally inheriting in middle age, also becoming rich old people. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-08/wealth-transfers-and-wealth-inequality-productivity-commission/100679000 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-08/wealth-transfers-and-... discusses the situation in Australia. For children, it would generally better if you could give them money while you are still alive and while they are at a stage of life they will benefit. Yet over here we tend to have tax and financial laws that discourage that. Or for the more radical socialist mindset, if financial security of your children is what you are after it may be better to massively tax wealth and fund proper social security.
- uwagar 2y agothey used to be called misers
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y agoI'm banking my profits to start a dyson sphere company. I am not joking. I'll seriously do it.
- yodsanklai 2y ago> David Fox has plenty of savings. He earns hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Recently, he allocated $60,000 to buying a new car—but when he arrived at the dealership, he could bring himself to spend only $30,000 on a used model. David Fox may be making the right decision here. The question for me is whether I have enough saving to sustain a decent lifestyle in an adverse, yet possible, scenario (getting laid off, declining stock market, inflation, reaching an old age, high medical expense...). And incidentally, will the $60K car make me that much happier than the used one for half the price? Even with a high salary, it may not be a very good decision to buy the expensive car.
- arp242 2y agoAnd the very next sentence is: "Despite making a conservative choice, he had panic attacks for a week afterward." So whatever the "good decision" may be, this is clearly not healthy. This is really what the article is about, not whether a $30k or $60k car is better.
- ryandrake 2y agoI guess it depends on whether he is having panic attacks or "panic attacks". Sometimes people exaggerate and say "I am literally having a panic attack" when they're mildly anxious. Maybe it's just run of the mill buyer's remorse. I know I would absolutely have buyer's remorse if I ever managed to spend $30K on a car, let alone $60K. I don't think that, in and of itself, makes me unhealthy.
- nixnixers 2y agoThis sounds like healthy psychology, incorrectly medicalized to me.. Who didn't question their big decisions like a major transportation decision before 1940? I think there were a few exceptional places/people that lacked both normal scarcity and social norm pressure, but even the wealthiest people worried like these things mattered in most towns. You can't just erase the entire cultural context of people and expect them to have no worries because there's a few more years to various peaks. They are experiencing the stresses of developing decision skills for a life that probably spans after peak petroleum, etc.
- kirth_gersen 2y agoThis is kind of ridiculous. Like there is something wrong with living within your means and being financially responsible. Guess it's bad for business. First time I'm glad for a walled off article on here. Saved me some time.
- arp242 2y agoThis is about people having panic attacks after spending money... Maybe you do need to at least actually skim the article to avoid making stupid comment such as this that doesn't connect with the article at all.
- defrost 2y ago> Fox falls into a category of people that the University of Michigan marketing professor Scott Rick has spent years studying: ... people that resist marketing! Oh, the horror.
- valar_m 2y agoExcept that's not at all what the article is talking about: > But the tightwads I spoke with have very real agita—panic, guilt, stress—over their financial situation, even though there’s no real reason for them to worry. They drag around a phantom limb of poverty, burdened with the sneaking sense that something isn’t right, no matter what their bank account says.
- defrost 2y agoIt's the reason the article was written by a marketing professor, it's motivated by exploring why people are resistent to marketing and the end goal would be to change the thinking about people who save rather than spend. You can see yourself the language used to describe saving not spending as that used to describe abnormal behaviour driven by unreasonable delusions. It's an article crafted to normalise spending.
- arp242 2y ago> the article was written by a marketing professor This is flat-out false.
- defrost 2y agoMy apologies, I should have said written by Olga Khazan, drawing extensively upon the works of marketing professor Scott Rick and marketing professor Abigail Sussman. This seems more an error of attribution than flat out wrong, but sure, take a performative extreme by all means.
- arp242 2y ago
- exhibit001 2y agoI am one of those "children of immigrants [sic] and can still feel the aftershocks of their austere upbringing". I have shifted my mindset a bit away from the extremes described in the article, and definitely can identify a bit with "that’s good; that’s noble" thought. The thought and the behavior, for me, isn't to be noble for noble's sake. The article felt a bit short for me as often financial woes are not mostly in our heads. Our individual bank accounts might show that we as individuals are ahead but the financial woes are still quite real with many of our parents. (Western) Society, and this article, disconnects the financial situation of the financially successful immigrant children with that of their aging and often financially modest parents. Spending and saving is wrapped in the guilt and the dreams of our the upbringing. I do go out, but I know my parent's are still cooking the proverbially ramen at home because they are behind on retirement. It is having room mates but still having rent in an average apartment costing more than my parents mortgage. It's having more money than your parents and siblings combined, while seeing that your parents worked twice as hard being limited by their lack of network and English skills. All while home ownership is getting harder so for our generation. Secure our own future feels like a zero sum game with sharing and give financially to our parents, and, as importantly, giving the luxuries society says we can afford to ourselves.
- icedchai 2y agoSaving, investing, and living below your means is how many people get "well-off" in the first place. Obviously, there are extremes.
- m463 2y agowas it warren buffet who said "don't save sex for old age" or something?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- m463 2y agoI have wealthy friends who: - can't enjoy a meal if it is "overpriced" - must get 30% discount at the grocery store - will buy an inexpensive electronics with all kinds of spyware/crap/ads/interruptions even though they could afford 10% more for stuff that won't behave that way - driving used cars guzzling gas even though a newer efficient car or ev would pay for itself in fuel (or safety) I think people are in this inverse boil-the-frog situation where things are getting more comfortable, but they don't notice.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- valiant55 2y agoThis hits close to home. Despite our household income approaching 200k I was still driving a 17 year old car until the repairs exceeded the scrap cost. I got lucky and snagged a starter home just before rates shot up and continue to live well below my means. I hate spending money and can only make bigger purchases after weeks of consideration and only pull the trigger on an impulse. My SO still sweats over $50 purchases.
- sys_64738 2y agoIt’s wonderful when spouse is careful with money too.
- etrautmann 2y agowe still do this. My spouse and I drive a ten year old beat up Prius and I love it. it's a point of pride that I don't need a fancier car, and the utility and efficiency actually feel good (sadly EVs aren't an option for us).
- autoexec 2y agoThis is pretty common for people who have struggled in the past and people who are uncertain about the future. There's a lot of uncertainty about the long term stability and sustainability of things right now. It's why doomsday preppers are a growing market and a rising industry (https://www.newsweek.com/doomsday-prepping-246-billion-industry-survival-tools-market-growth-1836530 https://www.newsweek.com/doomsday-prepping-246-billion-indus...), it's why rich people are building bunkers and securing citizenship in multiple countries so that they can jump ship if the one they're in starts sinking. Once people's anxieties are alleviated by confidence in their security there should be fewer people with lots of money worried about spending it.
- more_corn 2y agoDid anyone actually pay to read the article?
- AviationAtom 2y agoWhat?
- bookofjoe 2y agohttps://archive.ph/WEX1n https://archive.ph/WEX1n
- roenxi 2y agoSomething interesting in the mix is that our emotions aren't calibrated to capitalism - we're turned to a sort of hunter-gatherer existence with maybe some farming. At a gut level most humans don't understand how to contextualise an offer of 2% compounding return on their capital. I'd imagine evolution is (metaphorically) carefully monitoring the situation and working out what it needs to do to take advantage of these new options. It isn't actually crazy to expect people to develop twitchy panicked feelings at the though of spending money. The opportunity cost of being a spendthrift is very high, a lot of people came through the greatest wealth expansion in human history and had an opportunity to buy in to it and then spent the money on idle luxuries. Understandable but probably not optimal choices.
- disambiguation 2y agoConsumerism is a disease and so is op-ed journalism.
- AviationAtom 2y agoBeing raised by a single mom, who tried to stay ahead of eviction, constantly had the power shut off, and often had bare shelves in the pantry, can 100% do a number on your psyche. You never feel far away from ending up back in that situation, short of being wildly successful financially.
- jerlam 2y agoSounds familiar to a book I was forced to read twenty years ago, "The Millionaire Next Door": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door A "tightwad" here would be called a "Prodigious Accumulator of Wealth" in the book, a fancy name for a person who continually spends much less than their income. Most of the rich didn't get there by spending money.
- sys_64738 2y agoWhy spend money just for the sake of it? Rich people don’t stay rich by spending their own money. I’ve always had a starving student mentality as wasting money on junk is just that. For any big purchase of more than three figures, wait a month. Do you really need it?
- Zambyte 2y agoIs your goal to be rich or to be happy?
- antisthenes 2y agoImagine trying to shame someone by calling them a tightwad because they spent 30k on a car, instead of 60. And trying to paint living below your means in a negative light. Here's the problem in buying "luxury" and enjoying life in 2024 - many things are just marketed as luxury, and impose a hefty markup for the seller. They aren't actually that much higher quality than something 1/3 or 1/4 the price. These kinds of goods embody the worst parts of capitalism - withholding surplus value from the person producing the good in the maximum amount possible and also creating an item that isn't needed, this creating waste and putting pressure on already scarce resources. Maybe these "tightwads" just don't care about this kind of negative signaling? Of course such a thought doesn't even occur to the author. Instead it's labeling and trying to somehow tie it to immigration. Note: this doesn't mean complete aversion to spending money. I have no problem with people or myself spending thousands of dollars on their tools of the trade for a hobby they enjoy like woodworking/photography/sports, whatever.
- znpy 2y ago> Irrational stinginess is a strange problem to have, akin to complaining about being too beautiful. Just to add another anecdotal data point: I kinda have that problem, most likely out of growing up through family financial difficulties. I did amass a significant amount of money out of caution, should anything bad happen. I had way more money than I was indebted for, and a nice enough paycheck. And... Something bad happened. I won't go into the details (I don't really want to share) but my house was on the line and I had to spend pretty much all of my savings to save the house and many years of work and sacrifices. Now I'm in debt again, but thankfully only by less than ten thousand euros over the balance in my bank account, so it's pretty reasonable and manageable. Still, I feel vulnerable and it's not at all a nice position to be in. So yeah, "irrational stinginess" isn't that bad after all. Somebody else in my position would have either lost the house or gone back into living paycheck to paycheck (or both). So just because some articles paint it as a not-optimal condition, don't assume it's automatically "bad".