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I still find it hard to believe that the current Starliner doesn't have the ability to undock automatically without humans on board. The first test flight was a

I still find it hard to believe that the current Starliner doesn't have the ability to undock automatically without humans on board. The first test flight was able to do that.

bell-cot 2y ago
Supposedly that's a "it's currently running which version of the software?" issue: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-crew-9-launch-to-late-september-for-flexibility/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-...
throwawaymaths 2y ago
Surely you've taken out a feature in software and then later regretted it
- fooqux 2y ago
  Sure, but I've also never worked on any software directly responsible for the lives of human beings (as far as I know, anyway). I would like to think I'd operate a little differently if I were.
  - rvnx 2y ago
    It depends I think ? See for example how Boeing works with the airplanes ( https://theprint.in/world/boeing-engineers-blame-cheap-indian-software-for-737-max-problems/256999/ https://theprint.in/world/boeing-engineers-blame-cheap-india... ) At the end, I wouldn't be surprised if ChatGPT writes parts of critical code in some companies. Just it would be very problematic to say it and nobody has interest into revealing that.
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
I wonder if NASA were aware, or is it possible that they just assumed the demonstrated capability was there, and Boeing never told them this Starliner didn't have it ?! I'd like to think NASA would consider all contingencies, but the Challenger O-ring disaster showed they can be as incompetent as Boeing themselves.
- verzali 2y ago
  NASA would be fully aware of the capabilities and would not have made assumptions, especially for flight to the ISS. They are very strict about approaches to the ISS, and would have gone through it with a fine comb before the flight.
trebligdivad 2y ago
They said on the call that the software though but it's a 'flight data' load which is all setup for normal crew use; who knows where the line is between data/code.
cryptonector 2y ago
Is it a hardware feature that's missing, or software? If the latter, can't it be restored? If the former, or if the latter but it can't be restored, is the docking station where Starliner is berthed going to remain unavailable forever? There are only TWO NASA docking stations. There are a bunch of Russian docking stations. There's a hard rule for ISS that no astronaut may be on board the ISS without a corresponding return vehicle being docked at all times. This rule is effectively being violated for the two Starliner astronauts because they can't return on Starliner. And now no new Crew Dragons may berth without the current crew returning on the currently berthed Crew Dragon. What a mess.
- wongarsu 2y ago
  According to the arstechnica article linked by bell-cot it's a software issue: "Well-placed sources said the current flight software on board Starliner, as configured, cannot perform an automated undocking from the space station and entry into Earth’s atmosphere. It will take about four weeks to update and validate the software for an autonomous return, should NASA decide it would be safer to bring Wilmore and Williams back to Earth inside a Crew Dragon spacecraft. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-crew-9-launch-to-late-september-for-flexibility/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-...
  - cryptonector 2y ago
    Thanks! That's comforting.
    - ethagknight 2y ago
      Is that comforting? That the capsule made it this far through “rigorous tests” overseen by a buddy system, without being able to perform a core function in the mission? I know that undocking is not easy, but it’s also the most steady-state part of the whole mission? It seems to me like one more blatant shortcut9 that regulators permitted, and Boeing leadership check the box on a form saying “capability complete”
- 2y ago
AnotherGoodName 2y ago
I can’t help but feel this is part of a game being played. “The capsule needs the crew!” Some pressure to nasa to fly the crew back on this and also some ass covering if the really embarrassing occurs: the unmanned capsule does fail - “hey everyone it just failed because it had no crew! Nothing to worry about!”
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I still find it hard to believe that the current Starliner doesn't have the ability to undock automatically without humans on board. The first test flight was able to do that.

bell-cot 2y ago

Supposedly that's a "it's currently running which version of the software?" issue: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-crew-9-launch-to-late-september-for-flexibility/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-...

throwawaymaths 2y ago

Surely you've taken out a feature in software and then later regretted it

fooqux 2y ago
Sure, but I've also never worked on any software directly responsible for the lives of human beings (as far as I know, anyway). I would like to think I'd operate a little differently if I were.
- rvnx 2y ago
  It depends I think ? See for example how Boeing works with the airplanes ( https://theprint.in/world/boeing-engineers-blame-cheap-indian-software-for-737-max-problems/256999/ https://theprint.in/world/boeing-engineers-blame-cheap-india... ) At the end, I wouldn't be surprised if ChatGPT writes parts of critical code in some companies. Just it would be very problematic to say it and nobody has interest into revealing that.

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago

I wonder if NASA were aware, or is it possible that they just assumed the demonstrated capability was there, and Boeing never told them this Starliner didn't have it ?! I'd like to think NASA would consider all contingencies, but the Challenger O-ring disaster showed they can be as incompetent as Boeing themselves.

verzali 2y ago
NASA would be fully aware of the capabilities and would not have made assumptions, especially for flight to the ISS. They are very strict about approaches to the ISS, and would have gone through it with a fine comb before the flight.

trebligdivad 2y ago

They said on the call that the software though but it's a 'flight data' load which is all setup for normal crew use; who knows where the line is between data/code.

cryptonector 2y ago

Is it a hardware feature that's missing, or software? If the latter, can't it be restored? If the former, or if the latter but it can't be restored, is the docking station where Starliner is berthed going to remain unavailable forever? There are only TWO NASA docking stations. There are a bunch of Russian docking stations. There's a hard rule for ISS that no astronaut may be on board the ISS without a corresponding return vehicle being docked at all times. This rule is effectively being violated for the two Starliner astronauts because they can't return on Starliner. And now no new Crew Dragons may berth without the current crew returning on the currently berthed Crew Dragon. What a mess.

wongarsu 2y ago
According to the arstechnica article linked by bell-cot it's a software issue: "Well-placed sources said the current flight software on board Starliner, as configured, cannot perform an automated undocking from the space station and entry into Earth’s atmosphere. It will take about four weeks to update and validate the software for an autonomous return, should NASA decide it would be safer to bring Wilmore and Williams back to Earth inside a Crew Dragon spacecraft. https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-crew-9-launch-to-late-september-for-flexibility/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-confirms-slip-of-...
- cryptonector 2y ago
  Thanks! That's comforting.
  - ethagknight 2y ago
    Is that comforting? That the capsule made it this far through “rigorous tests” overseen by a buddy system, without being able to perform a core function in the mission? I know that undocking is not easy, but it’s also the most steady-state part of the whole mission? It seems to me like one more blatant shortcut9 that regulators permitted, and Boeing leadership check the box on a form saying “capability complete”
2y ago

AnotherGoodName 2y ago

I can’t help but feel this is part of a game being played. “The capsule needs the crew!” Some pressure to nasa to fly the crew back on this and also some ass covering if the really embarrassing occurs: the unmanned capsule does fail - “hey everyone it just failed because it had no crew! Nothing to worry about!”

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