7 ms·

Kitchen sponges can be used as memory devices

53 points by harhargange 2y ago

harhargange 2y ago
Link for the paper: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2024/sm/d4sm00099d https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2024/sm/d4sm00099...
- ryandv 2y ago
  I understand that this link is authwalled (by accounts that can be created for free), but it's telling of the medium how the actual paper itself is downvoted while the majority of the rest of the comments appear to either be tangential/unrelated to the article, or stem from misunderstandings of the actual paper; RTFA still applies after all these years.
  - aaron695 2y ago
    This is the Preprint no login required, I believe - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381997522_Emergent_reprogrammable_mechanical_memory_in_soft_rods_network_via_friction_tuning https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381997522_Emergent_... The topic has no place on HN. Or perhaps it shows HN wears no clothes. No one knows what it it, yet here it is on the front page. There is zero reason to think there is any higher meaning to HN if we work it out. Is there any reason the think HN is better on topics they know or should know? It could well be babble. To me it feels like a obfuscation of something well studied. The author has worked on "rejuvenation of decontaminated N95 masks" which you can see how you might want to delete the memory. Not saying the topic is bad, but still think this paper is publish or perish.
IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago
I tried reading the linked article but could not identify in layman the breakthrough
fsckboy 2y ago
here's what I think it says: you know those Pin Art toys where you can press your face against all the metal pins and it will show an image of your face, till you shake it up? Well you can do that with a compressed sponge too, and it will reset when you take the pressure off the sponge. how far off am I?
- sublinear 2y ago
  You're not far off and from this perspective of course anything can hold information.
  - im3w1l 2y ago
    - The State is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. - What truth? - The Monad But in all seriousness, I think the research matters because they aren't just concerned with what can hold information, but also suggest looking at what does hold information that is actually used for some biological purpose.
- therein 2y ago
  Attach two probes to the opposite sides of the sponge. Wet the sponge to store 1. Get the water out to store 0. Did you know you can use coins as memory? Stack them together to remember numbers. Big silicon hates this one trick.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ryandv 2y ago
  Indenting with a metallic indentor gives a quite distinct response in both of these phases. In the elastic phase, the sponge regains its original shape following unindentation over a timescale t given by the relaxation timescale of the visco-elastic polymeric material. For the polymeric materials used, the relaxation time- scales are of the order of 100 s and the material recovers fully leaving no trace of damage. In contrast, the pseudo-plastic phase retains a permanent deformation as the relaxation timescale effectively goes to infinite due to frictional locking. This deforma- tion memory can be erased by removing the external strain field allowing the pseudo-plastic zone to transit back into the elastic zone through the removal of applied global stress on the sponge. To take the analogy further, you have to squeeze the metal pins together first so that they rub together and the friction prevents them from all just falling back into their original position after a minute or two once you remove your face from the pins. Instead of shaking it up you stop squeezing the rods together and eventually they all fall back into their original position. Someone with an actual materials science background can take it to the next step.
undersuit 2y ago
So it has the same problem with a lot of "memory", reads are destructive. Your write probe and read probe are the same, some sort of needle/poker?
- harhargange 2y ago
  They need not be the same. CDs can be read with a laser and this can be read optically as well.
_han 2y ago
AI hypers be like "kitchen sponges are conscious"
ssss11 2y ago
God I hope they don’t add AI, bitcoin or cyber security to my kitchen sponge. But I can hear the marketers thinking…
- icemelt8 2y ago
  if they add all of it, then your kitchen sponge will become a sentient SpongeBob.
- unsupp0rted 2y ago
  We need a smart sponge that can ping your phone when it needs to be replaced. Without this, we're in the dark ages.
gcr 2y ago
The idea of mechanical memory systems reminds me of a short story by Ted Chiang, “Exhalation” https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/ https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/
- Filligree 2y ago
  That was a really nice read; thanks for the link.
  - noboostforyou 2y ago
    If you haven't read it, Stories of Your Life and Others by Chiang is incredible.
mycall 2y ago
Can sponges be used as a capacitor for fluidics?
- harhargange 2y ago
  A lot of foamy materials are indeed used for that purpose
zuckerma 2y ago
Interesting headline.

53 points by harhargange 2y ago

Link for the paper: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2024/sm/d4sm00099d https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlepdf/2024/sm/d4sm00099...

ryandv 2y ago
I understand that this link is authwalled (by accounts that can be created for free), but it's telling of the medium how the actual paper itself is downvoted while the majority of the rest of the comments appear to either be tangential/unrelated to the article, or stem from misunderstandings of the actual paper; RTFA still applies after all these years.
- aaron695 2y ago
  This is the Preprint no login required, I believe - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381997522_Emergent_reprogrammable_mechanical_memory_in_soft_rods_network_via_friction_tuning https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381997522_Emergent_... The topic has no place on HN. Or perhaps it shows HN wears no clothes. No one knows what it it, yet here it is on the front page. There is zero reason to think there is any higher meaning to HN if we work it out. Is there any reason the think HN is better on topics they know or should know? It could well be babble. To me it feels like a obfuscation of something well studied. The author has worked on "rejuvenation of decontaminated N95 masks" which you can see how you might want to delete the memory. Not saying the topic is bad, but still think this paper is publish or perish.

IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago

I tried reading the linked article but could not identify in layman the breakthrough

fsckboy 2y ago

here's what I think it says: you know those Pin Art toys where you can press your face against all the metal pins and it will show an image of your face, till you shake it up? Well you can do that with a compressed sponge too, and it will reset when you take the pressure off the sponge. how far off am I?

sublinear 2y ago
You're not far off and from this perspective of course anything can hold information.
- im3w1l 2y ago
  - The State is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. - What truth? - The Monad But in all seriousness, I think the research matters because they aren't just concerned with what can hold information, but also suggest looking at what does hold information that is actually used for some biological purpose.
therein 2y ago
Attach two probes to the opposite sides of the sponge. Wet the sponge to store 1. Get the water out to store 0. Did you know you can use coins as memory? Stack them together to remember numbers. Big silicon hates this one trick.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ryandv 2y ago
Indenting with a metallic indentor gives a quite distinct response in both of these phases. In the elastic phase, the sponge regains its original shape following unindentation over a timescale t given by the relaxation timescale of the visco-elastic polymeric material. For the polymeric materials used, the relaxation time- scales are of the order of 100 s and the material recovers fully leaving no trace of damage. In contrast, the pseudo-plastic phase retains a permanent deformation as the relaxation timescale effectively goes to infinite due to frictional locking. This deforma- tion memory can be erased by removing the external strain field allowing the pseudo-plastic zone to transit back into the elastic zone through the removal of applied global stress on the sponge. To take the analogy further, you have to squeeze the metal pins together first so that they rub together and the friction prevents them from all just falling back into their original position after a minute or two once you remove your face from the pins. Instead of shaking it up you stop squeezing the rods together and eventually they all fall back into their original position. Someone with an actual materials science background can take it to the next step.

undersuit 2y ago

So it has the same problem with a lot of "memory", reads are destructive. Your write probe and read probe are the same, some sort of needle/poker?

harhargange 2y ago
They need not be the same. CDs can be read with a laser and this can be read optically as well.

_han 2y ago

AI hypers be like "kitchen sponges are conscious"

ssss11 2y ago

God I hope they don’t add AI, bitcoin or cyber security to my kitchen sponge. But I can hear the marketers thinking…

icemelt8 2y ago
if they add all of it, then your kitchen sponge will become a sentient SpongeBob.
unsupp0rted 2y ago
We need a smart sponge that can ping your phone when it needs to be replaced. Without this, we're in the dark ages.

gcr 2y ago

The idea of mechanical memory systems reminds me of a short story by Ted Chiang, “Exhalation” https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/ https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/

Filligree 2y ago
That was a really nice read; thanks for the link.
- noboostforyou 2y ago
  If you haven't read it, Stories of Your Life and Others by Chiang is incredible.

mycall 2y ago

Can sponges be used as a capacitor for fluidics?

harhargange 2y ago
A lot of foamy materials are indeed used for that purpose

zuckerma 2y ago

Interesting headline.