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Question from someone who doesn't know the SF neighborhoods... Can a single, childless tech startup-type person live comfortably walking car-free in contempora

by neilv 2y ago

Question from someone who doesn't know the SF neighborhoods... Can a single, childless tech startup-type person live comfortably walking car-free in contemporary SF, long-term? If so, how much does that cost, and in what neighborhoods? Reason I'm asking: the East Coast city where I currently live isn't great for software startups, and, on top of some crazy downsides of this city, there's a possibly emerging new downside: panhandler demographics shifting more towards angry 20yo men who use borderline mugging approaches, very brazenly. Ideal for me in tech work is what I'll call "mostly-WFH-in-town", where people get most of the WFH flexibility goodness, but can also easily meet up for in-person high-bandwidth focused collaboration, personalizing, working on hardware, etc. So I'd probably want a concentration of potential colleagues who also like mostly-WFH-in-town. So I'm wondering whether SF is that place. Zillow searches for modern apartments in parts of SF proper look more attractive, for the same money, as places in my city. But I don't know the SF neighborhoods, and I don't know how representative are the SF stories about stepping over needles on the sidewalk all the time, finding poo on your doorstep every morning, frequent casual break-ins, etc. Socioeconomic diversity, social justice, and safety nets are great, and preferred. Excessive poo, and other hazards, aren't. When you walk most places, the sidewalk environment matters even more than if you're usually insulated in either a building or a car.

rapatel0 2y ago
> Can a single, childless tech startup-type person live comfortably walking car-free in contemporary SF, long-term? If so, how much does that cost, and in what neighborhoods? I used this when doing analysis. It's pretty good. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp From a pure cost, POV you burn most of your money on rent and food. When we had visitors, I had to plan out my budget to cover meals for everyone. I remember paying >$80 for a decent bagels+coffee breakfast for me, my wife and her parents. In terms of security, If you keep your head on a swivel then you're fine. I had the same alertness that I have when traveling a foreign country. You need to be on high alert all the time. Otherwise is it's a wonderful place. If I was a single guy, I'd love the vibe, the people, and the opportunity. If your in a WFH situation then I'd suggest just trying it out for 6 to 12 months. The experience will be great either way. Other place id recommend is the Folsom near Sacremento. It's ~1 hour to lake tahoe and lots of nature to enjoy there. Very suburban WFH tolerant with roughly 50% of the rental cost
- neilv 2y ago
  Thank you for the info. > In terms of security, If you keep your head on a swivel then you're fine. I had the same alertness that I have when traveling a foreign country. You need to be on high alert all the time. Are we talking only about having basic city street savvy (e.g., you're perceived as a savvy native rather than easy pickings, can spot the usual threats and risks without trying, and can avoid or handle them)? Or more like someone who has that basic street savvy, but who is also feeling like they found themselves in a rougher neighborhood at the moment (e.g., getting closer to military head on a swivel mode, and looking to not spend more time there than necessary)?
  - hylaride 2y ago
    Don’t live in SF, but was a frequent visitor. During the day you’ll be fine if you don’t look like a dumb tourist and mind your own business. Some of SF’s main cultural attractions are in “rough” neighbourhoods like Chinatown. As night falls and the street life thins out, you probably don’t want to wander the areas like the tenderloin or most dark red places on this map: https://gisgeography.com/san-francisco-crime-map/ https://gisgeography.com/san-francisco-crime-map/ but even the vast majority of the crime there is petty. You’re still unlikely to be a victim of violent crime, but the chances are higher that you’ll be assaulted by somebody desperate for a fix. The actual violent crime rates in SF are still below the national average, but the drug issues are just very, very visible.
  - pfisherman 2y ago
    I don’t know where the original poster is from, but I am kind of scratching my head at their comment. There is basically nowhere in SF I would have the slightest bit of fear walking around with the exceptions of bayview / hunters point or sunnydale.
- wnolens 2y ago
  > You need to be on high alert all the time. Otherwise is it's a wonderful place That must do a number on your nervous system long term. I live in NYC where I'm on high alert in specific areas at specific times that amount to maybe 30% of my time outside home and office. Otherwise I'm earbuds in enjoying something, or staring into the middle distance processing something on my mind. Both feel essential to my mental health.
cbabraham 2y ago
I've lived car free in SF for 12 years it's very walkable! Just start out in the mission for max socializing and transit access and then you can live somewhere else when you've gotten to know the city. You can take bike share and the bus everywhere, housing is expensive but less so than nyc!
hemloc_io 2y ago
> Can a single, childless tech startup-type person live comfortably walking car-free in contemporary SF, long-term? If so, how much does that cost, and in what neighborhoods? yes-ish In SF generally the areas are the most car dependent and the hilliest are also the quietest and have the least amount of bullshit. SOMA, where you see a majority of those modern apartments, is going to have some of the worst problems. You get what you pay for in the city. Every part of the city is going to have some kind of street problem, but some, like Bernal for example, have them very rarely. It entirely is neighborhood dependent and there's tradeoffs. Maybe you get a quiet apartment, but it's at the top of a hill. Do you want to walk up that every day? The easiest way to tell is just to show up and walk around the whole city, it's only 7x7 so you can literally spend a weekend walking around and see all of it and make your own conclusions. Certain places change completely within a few blocks. e.g. you can go from the Tenderloin which is easily one of the worst parts of the city to the yuppie paradise of Hayes Valley in like three or four blocks. Edit: in terms of cost? prob 2-4k in monthlies for a good studio/one bed. The rest is up to your budgeting, eating out and anything in the service economy is very expensive compared to the rest of the country. Including places like NYC. Very few affordable places survive here, regardless of their quality. I'd say you could tack on like another 1-2k a month as a single person and be pretty happy with the amount of things you're doing, plus some grocery cost depending on how much you cook for yourself.
- stanleykm 2y ago
  > SOMA, where you see a majority of those modern apartments, is going to have some of the worst problems I dont think thats true once you get east of 4th and for sure 3rd street.
  - hemloc_io 2y ago
    8th and Mission is a lot different than 4th and Mission that's for sure. I actually work up near that area and would still say you'll have interesting characters, but not something like 8th and Mission where I feel terrible for everyone who runs a business around there. Most new apartment buildings I saw for my move a few years ago were concentrated around the civic center + market area. Regardless of what people say here, walking around is the most effective way of ensuring that you're comfortable with where you are planning on being.
acchow 2y ago
The new startup ecosystem in SF (including Ycombinator itself) has moved to the Dogpatch and Mission Bay area (https://maps.app.goo.gl/62FCMHEQWsMD2yHq7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/62FCMHEQWsMD2yHq7) of SF. You will not encounter needles here. I never even see any homeless here. It doesn't really "feel" like SF, but it is very walkable and bikeable. It is very clean. I think a 1 bedroom apartment rent would be around $3500 now (and all of the buildings here are fairly new)

by neilv 2y ago

rapatel0 2y ago

> Can a single, childless tech startup-type person live comfortably walking car-free in contemporary SF, long-term? If so, how much does that cost, and in what neighborhoods? I used this when doing analysis. It's pretty good. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp From a pure cost, POV you burn most of your money on rent and food. When we had visitors, I had to plan out my budget to cover meals for everyone. I remember paying >$80 for a decent bagels+coffee breakfast for me, my wife and her parents. In terms of security, If you keep your head on a swivel then you're fine. I had the same alertness that I have when traveling a foreign country. You need to be on high alert all the time. Otherwise is it's a wonderful place. If I was a single guy, I'd love the vibe, the people, and the opportunity. If your in a WFH situation then I'd suggest just trying it out for 6 to 12 months. The experience will be great either way. Other place id recommend is the Folsom near Sacremento. It's ~1 hour to lake tahoe and lots of nature to enjoy there. Very suburban WFH tolerant with roughly 50% of the rental cost

neilv 2y ago
Thank you for the info. > In terms of security, If you keep your head on a swivel then you're fine. I had the same alertness that I have when traveling a foreign country. You need to be on high alert all the time. Are we talking only about having basic city street savvy (e.g., you're perceived as a savvy native rather than easy pickings, can spot the usual threats and risks without trying, and can avoid or handle them)? Or more like someone who has that basic street savvy, but who is also feeling like they found themselves in a rougher neighborhood at the moment (e.g., getting closer to military head on a swivel mode, and looking to not spend more time there than necessary)?
- hylaride 2y ago
  Don’t live in SF, but was a frequent visitor. During the day you’ll be fine if you don’t look like a dumb tourist and mind your own business. Some of SF’s main cultural attractions are in “rough” neighbourhoods like Chinatown. As night falls and the street life thins out, you probably don’t want to wander the areas like the tenderloin or most dark red places on this map: https://gisgeography.com/san-francisco-crime-map/ https://gisgeography.com/san-francisco-crime-map/ but even the vast majority of the crime there is petty. You’re still unlikely to be a victim of violent crime, but the chances are higher that you’ll be assaulted by somebody desperate for a fix. The actual violent crime rates in SF are still below the national average, but the drug issues are just very, very visible.
- pfisherman 2y ago
  I don’t know where the original poster is from, but I am kind of scratching my head at their comment. There is basically nowhere in SF I would have the slightest bit of fear walking around with the exceptions of bayview / hunters point or sunnydale.
wnolens 2y ago
> You need to be on high alert all the time. Otherwise is it's a wonderful place That must do a number on your nervous system long term. I live in NYC where I'm on high alert in specific areas at specific times that amount to maybe 30% of my time outside home and office. Otherwise I'm earbuds in enjoying something, or staring into the middle distance processing something on my mind. Both feel essential to my mental health.

cbabraham 2y ago

I've lived car free in SF for 12 years it's very walkable! Just start out in the mission for max socializing and transit access and then you can live somewhere else when you've gotten to know the city. You can take bike share and the bus everywhere, housing is expensive but less so than nyc!

hemloc_io 2y ago

> Can a single, childless tech startup-type person live comfortably walking car-free in contemporary SF, long-term? If so, how much does that cost, and in what neighborhoods? yes-ish In SF generally the areas are the most car dependent and the hilliest are also the quietest and have the least amount of bullshit. SOMA, where you see a majority of those modern apartments, is going to have some of the worst problems. You get what you pay for in the city. Every part of the city is going to have some kind of street problem, but some, like Bernal for example, have them very rarely. It entirely is neighborhood dependent and there's tradeoffs. Maybe you get a quiet apartment, but it's at the top of a hill. Do you want to walk up that every day? The easiest way to tell is just to show up and walk around the whole city, it's only 7x7 so you can literally spend a weekend walking around and see all of it and make your own conclusions. Certain places change completely within a few blocks. e.g. you can go from the Tenderloin which is easily one of the worst parts of the city to the yuppie paradise of Hayes Valley in like three or four blocks. Edit: in terms of cost? prob 2-4k in monthlies for a good studio/one bed. The rest is up to your budgeting, eating out and anything in the service economy is very expensive compared to the rest of the country. Including places like NYC. Very few affordable places survive here, regardless of their quality. I'd say you could tack on like another 1-2k a month as a single person and be pretty happy with the amount of things you're doing, plus some grocery cost depending on how much you cook for yourself.

stanleykm 2y ago
> SOMA, where you see a majority of those modern apartments, is going to have some of the worst problems I dont think thats true once you get east of 4th and for sure 3rd street.
- hemloc_io 2y ago
  8th and Mission is a lot different than 4th and Mission that's for sure. I actually work up near that area and would still say you'll have interesting characters, but not something like 8th and Mission where I feel terrible for everyone who runs a business around there. Most new apartment buildings I saw for my move a few years ago were concentrated around the civic center + market area. Regardless of what people say here, walking around is the most effective way of ensuring that you're comfortable with where you are planning on being.

acchow 2y ago

The new startup ecosystem in SF (including Ycombinator itself) has moved to the Dogpatch and Mission Bay area (https://maps.app.goo.gl/62FCMHEQWsMD2yHq7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/62FCMHEQWsMD2yHq7) of SF. You will not encounter needles here. I never even see any homeless here. It doesn't really "feel" like SF, but it is very walkable and bikeable. It is very clean. I think a 1 bedroom apartment rent would be around $3500 now (and all of the buildings here are fairly new)