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> Alpine, Devuan, Gentoo and other devs have kept init choice available. Nothing stopped anyone, including yourself, from modifying or forking a distro like Fe

> Alpine, Devuan, Gentoo and other devs have kept init choice available. Nothing stopped anyone, including yourself, from modifying or forking a distro like Fedora to make it support non-systemd, it's just you can't expect others to do it for you.

walterbell 2y ago
Fedora/RH is maintained by a company with > 100 billion market cap. Forked by Oracle, Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux, for reasons other than systemd.
akira2501 2y ago
Some distributions made this convenient. Others made this inconvenient. It's not about expectations it's about distributions going out of their way to remove choices from users in some highly opinionated ways. Which is all fine, I just won't use your distribution, what surprises me are the people who feel the need to step in an "defend" this rather pointless outcome for some reason. My favorites are those who suggest that this had to occur in order for linux to "mature" or "become modern."
i_read_news 2y ago
The power of defaults cannot be underestimated.
lmm 2y ago
> Nothing stopped anyone, including yourself, from modifying or forking a distro like Fedora to make it support non-systemd Pottering et al went out of their way to make this harder than it would otherwise be (e.g. adding the gnome hard-dependency on logind which they then variously claimed was necessary, was unintended, was accidental...) Nothing's stopping me from modifying Windows to do what I want either, it's just hard. There was a time when Linux people cared about whether their systems were easy to modify.
- mid-kid 2y ago
  logind isn't really the worst of it, systemd has a tendency of usurping existing solutions into only working with the rest of systemd, instead of helping improve the ecosystem for everyone.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    logind provides features developers of software that use them want or like, people aren't adopting it just for the sake of it. e.g. GNOME Shell now uses systemd user services to manage its sub services rather than starting them itself. Why? Because systemd does service management a lot better and provides proven features (logging, sandboxing, cgroups etc) rather than GNOME having to re-implement them.
    - lmm 2y ago
      > logind provides features developers of software that use them want or like, people aren't adopting it just for the sake of it. On the contrary, as the article describes, Pottering and the RedHat team pushed all these projects to adopt their stuff, and part of that was making the patches themselves and saying a lot of things that turned out not to be true. It absolutely wasn't an organic success on its technical merits.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]

walterbell 2y ago

Fedora/RH is maintained by a company with > 100 billion market cap. Forked by Oracle, Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux, for reasons other than systemd.

akira2501 2y ago

Some distributions made this convenient. Others made this inconvenient. It's not about expectations it's about distributions going out of their way to remove choices from users in some highly opinionated ways. Which is all fine, I just won't use your distribution, what surprises me are the people who feel the need to step in an "defend" this rather pointless outcome for some reason. My favorites are those who suggest that this had to occur in order for linux to "mature" or "become modern."

i_read_news 2y ago

The power of defaults cannot be underestimated.

lmm 2y ago

> Nothing stopped anyone, including yourself, from modifying or forking a distro like Fedora to make it support non-systemd Pottering et al went out of their way to make this harder than it would otherwise be (e.g. adding the gnome hard-dependency on logind which they then variously claimed was necessary, was unintended, was accidental...) Nothing's stopping me from modifying Windows to do what I want either, it's just hard. There was a time when Linux people cared about whether their systems were easy to modify.

mid-kid 2y ago
logind isn't really the worst of it, systemd has a tendency of usurping existing solutions into only working with the rest of systemd, instead of helping improve the ecosystem for everyone.
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  logind provides features developers of software that use them want or like, people aren't adopting it just for the sake of it. e.g. GNOME Shell now uses systemd user services to manage its sub services rather than starting them itself. Why? Because systemd does service management a lot better and provides proven features (logging, sandboxing, cgroups etc) rather than GNOME having to re-implement them.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > logind provides features developers of software that use them want or like, people aren't adopting it just for the sake of it. On the contrary, as the article describes, Pottering and the RedHat team pushed all these projects to adopt their stuff, and part of that was making the patches themselves and saying a lot of things that turned out not to be true. It absolutely wasn't an organic success on its technical merits.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]