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What purpose did the lower-right Enter key serve on original Mac 128k keyboard?
- kps 2y agoNewline vs Submit, instead of one key doing either depending on whether you're in a multiline text field. Another I miss (that Apple didn't have either) making the same distinction is Next/Previous instead of overloading Tab.
- erikw 2y agoThat never occurred to me, but sounds wonderful! I wonder if modern interfaces would have ended up more navigable if there had been the expectation of these dedicated keys on every keyboard?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- parl_match 2y agoThis is a distinction that mattered quite a bit more in the 80s, and still matters today in limited application. While the comment in that is correct (return for multiline, and enter for selecting default option) a key feature for the macintosh, and any computer of the era, would have been being used as a terminal emulator (console for a mainframe or server of some sort). On line based serial consoles, like interacting with a PDP or VAX (common in the era), you would be emulating a teletype. Return is short for "carriage return", physically moving the cursor to the head of the next line. In use cases such as that, enter doesn't matter as much. However, on many IBM computers, where the UI is form based (not line by line serial as many expect): return is for new lines only or moving to the next form field, and enter is for submitting the whole form as is. You still see return vs enter on modern keyboards, usually in the numpad area. TLDR: it was probably considered a necessary function key for interacting with non-macintosh computers, a substantial use-case in the 80s
- reaperducer 2y agoMany spreadsheets treated [RETURN] and [ENTER] differently. I had one spreadsheet program that would move the cursor down one row on [RETURN], while [ENTER] performed the calculation (and recalculated any associated cells). Another spreadsheet program used [RETURN] for a newline, and [ENTER] would recalculate the entire spreadsheet.
- ajross 2y agoWhat's interesting is "Enter", at the time, wasn't really a standard key at all. The key was called "return" on most keyboards, including seminal ones like the Apple II and VT-100. The IBM Model F that shipped with the original PC just had a "down and right" L-shaped arrow[1] on the key. A quick search pulled up the later F that shipped with the PC/AT, which had both the arrow and "Enter" printed on it. I think this is the first point where the industry shifted. Now everyone but Apple uses "Enter". [1] Chromebooks today have revived this tradition and have arrow-only enter keys.
- Dalewyn 2y agoReturn, short for Carriage Return, makes no contextual sense unless you're old (really old) enough to have seriously used typewriters. Nowadays, I get "WTF" faces whenever I go down to the office supply store and ask them where they have their typewriter ribbon cartridges. It's like Floppy Disk for the Save button, except Return didn't have the cultural weight behind it.
- reaperducer 2y agoReturn, short for Carriage Return, makes no contextual sense unless you're old (really old) enough to have seriously used typewriters. You don't have to be all that old. I had a job in 1995 where I was the only person in the building with a computer, while everyone else (30ish people) had typewriters. People like to believe the computer revolution happened overnight. It didn't. Businesses didn't suddenly throw away all of their equipment and employees in one day.
- bravetraveler 2y agoI was a child in 95 and am far too familiar with the workings of typewriters. I didn't seek it out
- Dalewyn 2y ago1995 was 29 years ago, so those 30-ish people will be in their 50s or 60s, maybe even 70s by now. So, "really" old by practical standards. Incidentally, I'm 35 years old and I know how to handle a typewriter thanks to my late mother. Even in this day and age, some things are done quicker and easier by just busting out a typewriter out of the closet.
- ydnaclementine 2y agoLove the "well acktshually" snark in the answer. Keep it real stackexchange
- flemhans 2y agoI miss this so much in chats, even right now when typing this comment. It's too bad that return and enter ended up being the same thing in most applications.
- amatecha 2y agoYeah, this brought me back to the days of AIM and constantly having a "3" at the end of my messages (and people asking why) because I was pressing the Enter key on the numpad to send my messages (and sometimes accidentally hitting the 3), rather than the Return key which would add a newline into my message! The distinction was actually a good thing, looking back. Can't even guess how many messages I've erroneously sent in recent years when actually trying to jump to a new line in the text I'm drafting...
- Sakos 2y agoYeah, wish I could still assign it to different hardware keys instead of it being relegated to an implementation detail that differs depending on what application I happen to be using or even which field I have highlighted in a particular application. It's maddening.
- cmeacham98 2y agoMost chat apps that send on enter (ex: Slack, Discord, Element) will accept Shift+Enter to move to the next line.
- nmstoker 2y agoI'd love this in modern UIs, I've got several apps where return is submitting a multiline textbox with shift-return adding a line, but then a few more that flip it the opposite way around... It's tough to recall which is which and therefore you end up submitting prematurely far too often!
- lloeki 2y agoBonus points for those that use alt or ctrl just to add to the confusion.
- nxobject 2y agoAccountants and financial analysts all over the world know control-enter - the Excel newline key combo.
- AnonC 2y agoIn MS Excel, adding a new line within a cell is Alt+Enter. In LibreOffice Calc, the same is Ctrl+Enter. It’s like the LibreOffice (or probably StarOffice/OpenOffice teams before that) wanted some kind of vengeance on Excel users.
- pcwalton 2y agoMathematica might be one of the few remaining holdouts of this convention: Return starts a new line, while Enter submits the command to the REPL. Enter is aliased to Shift+Return, though, which I'm pretty sure is what most people use nowadays.
- damiankennedy 2y agoI grew up with a 6128 keyboard (the keyboard was ackshually the computer) which had separate Enter and Return keys. It also had a "Copy" key. The keyboard I use today has a key to change the colour of the LEDs. If I press it accidentally I have to press it 7 more times to cycle around to match the mouse which has its own button and the same 8 colours.
- userbinator 2y agoUpon seeing the picture, "one for 0D, the other for the 0A" was what came to mind, and then I remembered old Macs had what may be the rarest of the common newline representations - a single 0D.
- Findecanor 2y agoCR for "new line" was probably a holdover from Apple II. It was common on 8-bit computers also from Commodore, Acorn, Sinclair and Tandy.
- pdpi 2y agoModern full-sized Apple keyboards still have separate Return and Enter keys. The key above right-shift is labeled Return, and the one in the numpad is labeled Enter. Unfortunately, the number of applications that still understand the distinction is ever dwindling.
- reaperducer 2y agoAlso bad are the applications that don't understand that [DELETE] and [CLEAR] are not the same thing.
- swiftcoder 2y agoMac laptop keyboards had the lower enter key well into the 2000's. I'm not sure what model finally dropped it (Titanium PowerBook G4, maybe?)
- Modified3019 2y ago>Somewhat famous for not including arrow keys because Steve Jobs wanted to encourage developers to use the mouse instead You know, with Jobs, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don’t care for him.
- sneak 2y agoImpossible to not read this in Norm’s nasal Canadian drawl.
- amelius 2y agoYeah. And if Apple design was so great, then why didn't we have separate copy+cut+paste keys, and undo+redo keys from the start? For example. Or even a help key.
- mannyv 2y agoAnd in response, a market for numeric keypads with arrow keys was born. You can focus on the one thing that aggravates you, or your can focus on everything that he got done during the arc of his career. Like it or not, he helped define today's world of computing.
- rsynnott 2y agoEh, not really? In response, the _next_ Apple keyboard did have arrow keys. It was clearly a mistake.
- gmac 2y agoI didn’t read it that way at all. If the keyboard without arrow keys had succeeded in setting the norm that developers rely on the mouse for input, then presumably it had done its job, and it was now safe to release a keyboard with arrow keys.
- amelius 2y agoThe Apple UX isn't much better than the often criticized Linux UX. In fact, sometimes it is worse (maximizing windows comes to mind). An opinionated system can be ok if the designer's opinion happens to match yours. Otherwise it can cause frustration.
- mannyv 2y agoIn Excel, the enter key meant "End editing the cell, don't move the cursor."
- swiftcoder 2y agoEven if we've lost the separate enter key, at least we still have separate Meta and Control keys (Meta/CMD for keyboard shortcuts, CTRL for terminal control codes)...
- Findecanor 2y agoPeople are not used to the classic old meaning of "Enter key", because people are more used to PC keyboards and there is a common misconception of what "Enter" means. On IBM PC keyboards, the key had got overloaded with two functions: Return and Enter. From the IBM Model F AT forwards, the key typically carried a legend for each function: an angled arrow that means "Return", and the textual legend "Enter". IBM keyboards for non-PC platforms, such as Model M keyboards for terminals had separate Return and Enter keys. The Return key had only the arrow. The "Enter" key was a small key on the bottom row. BTW. There is also a similar common misconception for the Tab and Back-Tab symbols, which IBM terminal keyboards sometimes also had separate keys for.
- OnlyMortal 2y agoI recall it was used to execute a command line of text in MPW Shell. You could triple click a line or select a range of text containing shell commands and hit the key to run. I do miss that as I had a scrapbook page of useful scripts.