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Lets see what Lunar Lake (low power, mobile SoC) delivers in next 2 months If it will deliver and match Apples Mx designs in terms of energy eff and perf, then

Lets see what Lunar Lake (low power, mobile SoC) delivers in next 2 months If it will deliver and match Apples Mx designs in terms of energy eff and perf, then ARMs expansion on the client side will slow down, I guess. No point in porting stuff for marginal gains since ISA does not matter as much as ppl think https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter/ https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/07/13/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-... Theres also talk about their shift to GPU, maybe Battle Mage will deliver in this year

Rinzler89 2y ago
>Theres also talk about their shift to GPU, maybe Battle Mage will deliver in this year Considering the stock tanking and the announced layoffs, I fear Battle Mage will be unfortunate collateral damage along the line. Really unfortunate timing as that was the only competition we could hope for to the Nvidia and AMD GPU duopoly who jacked up their prices, and Intel was actually committed to the new GPUs constantly pushing updates and fixes. There's no point in rooting for Intel's downfall here as some people seem to take pleasure in, as then AMD will just jack up their prices as they've done in the past, since they're a business not a charity, and only acted nice to consumers while they were the underdog but will not hesitate to milk us dry the moment they own the market like Intel and Nvidia did.
- skocznymroczny 2y ago
  On the other hand, if Intel is still committed to the AI business, it all hinges on the GPUs at the moment.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    The AI bubble could pop by that time leaving them broke with overpriced doorstops in stocks. That's like building Bitcoin miners before it popped. Too risky to go all in on AI now when Nvidia already has a stronghold monopoly that even AMD can't break.
    - xattt 2y ago
      Intel has cranked up its dev support and market cornering machine in the past. Let’s see if it can do that again without a near-monopoly market status.
    - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
      And AI will pop soon, there's reports that the AI companies and their suppliers have dumped billions in R&D and investments but are slow to start earning that back.
    - throw310822 2y ago
      Curious what you (and others) mean with "AI bubble popping". I mean, in practice? Crypto was a bubble (or well, a hype) in that almost none of the proposed applications ever looked remotely plausible, even to a superficial assessment. (Meanwhile, BTC is still around $50k). But the "AI bubble"? Are we going to discover that none of the LLM-based applications that are being developed now actually works (despite many having already been working for years, e.g. copilot) AND at the same time that further improvements, both in the LLMs themselves and in the code surrounding them, are impossible- in other words, that LLMs, after four or five years of development at most are already a mature technology? Are we not going to find any new use cases for agents that have almost the skills of specialists, minus some kind of cognitive impairment? Honest question, I don't understand.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >Curious what you (and others) mean with "AI bubble popping" Large corps and FAANGS are spending billions on Nvidia HW and on ML training but all those LLMs aren't earning them any money, in fact they're still loosing money just to capture the market share and consumer mindset, but there's doesn't seem to be a profit light at the end of the tunnel. Once they've bled enough money with no chance of RoI, they'll put a halt on ML expansion and stop buying Nvidia HW. Intel entering at that point would be suicide.
        throw310822 2y ago
        True, those LLMs are not earning them any money, but do you think they lack future applications (and future improvements) that would be worth the money those companies are spending now?
- layoric 2y ago
  IMO if they released a mid level performer workstation card with 48-64GB of VRAM for a reasonable price (my understanding is standard GDDR6 is not overly expensive), say under $1k usd, they would not only fly off the shelves, but they would also gain OSS efforts improving popular packages. Products like the NVIDIA A6000 are so insanely overpriced, I’m still baffled why larger VRAM cards haven’t come out more competitive.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    > I’m still baffled why larger VRAM cards haven’t come out more competitive. Because that would eat into the market of hyper expensive dedicated AI accelerator cards. Wasn't it obvious? At TSMC you'll pay 20 per square inch of silicon(number I made up for exemplification), would you rather a) print a GPU on it and sell it to consumers for $800 or b) print an AI accelerator on it and sell it to datacenters for $8000? It's really that simple. What company you know that says no to making more money?
- LegitShady 2y ago
  I don't think Intel can afford to not continue in the GPU segment. They must continue developing there. It's a growth industry with high demand and good margins, and cancelling their gpi stuff saves them a billion now and costs them the whole company in 10 years.
moffkalast 2y ago
Would be great to see something that rivals the Strix Halo and the Z1 at apologetic prices :) Right now everyone's still busy shoving the not-very-efficient N100 into every possible product that exists and making up some new ones too, while half of them end up underperforming from improper cooling.
deleted 2y ago
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Rinzler89 2y ago

>Theres also talk about their shift to GPU, maybe Battle Mage will deliver in this year Considering the stock tanking and the announced layoffs, I fear Battle Mage will be unfortunate collateral damage along the line. Really unfortunate timing as that was the only competition we could hope for to the Nvidia and AMD GPU duopoly who jacked up their prices, and Intel was actually committed to the new GPUs constantly pushing updates and fixes. There's no point in rooting for Intel's downfall here as some people seem to take pleasure in, as then AMD will just jack up their prices as they've done in the past, since they're a business not a charity, and only acted nice to consumers while they were the underdog but will not hesitate to milk us dry the moment they own the market like Intel and Nvidia did.

skocznymroczny 2y ago
On the other hand, if Intel is still committed to the AI business, it all hinges on the GPUs at the moment.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  The AI bubble could pop by that time leaving them broke with overpriced doorstops in stocks. That's like building Bitcoin miners before it popped. Too risky to go all in on AI now when Nvidia already has a stronghold monopoly that even AMD can't break.
  - xattt 2y ago
    Intel has cranked up its dev support and market cornering machine in the past. Let’s see if it can do that again without a near-monopoly market status.
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    And AI will pop soon, there's reports that the AI companies and their suppliers have dumped billions in R&D and investments but are slow to start earning that back.
  - throw310822 2y ago
    Curious what you (and others) mean with "AI bubble popping". I mean, in practice? Crypto was a bubble (or well, a hype) in that almost none of the proposed applications ever looked remotely plausible, even to a superficial assessment. (Meanwhile, BTC is still around $50k). But the "AI bubble"? Are we going to discover that none of the LLM-based applications that are being developed now actually works (despite many having already been working for years, e.g. copilot) AND at the same time that further improvements, both in the LLMs themselves and in the code surrounding them, are impossible- in other words, that LLMs, after four or five years of development at most are already a mature technology? Are we not going to find any new use cases for agents that have almost the skills of specialists, minus some kind of cognitive impairment? Honest question, I don't understand.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >Curious what you (and others) mean with "AI bubble popping" Large corps and FAANGS are spending billions on Nvidia HW and on ML training but all those LLMs aren't earning them any money, in fact they're still loosing money just to capture the market share and consumer mindset, but there's doesn't seem to be a profit light at the end of the tunnel. Once they've bled enough money with no chance of RoI, they'll put a halt on ML expansion and stop buying Nvidia HW. Intel entering at that point would be suicide.
      - throw310822 2y ago
        True, those LLMs are not earning them any money, but do you think they lack future applications (and future improvements) that would be worth the money those companies are spending now?
layoric 2y ago
IMO if they released a mid level performer workstation card with 48-64GB of VRAM for a reasonable price (my understanding is standard GDDR6 is not overly expensive), say under $1k usd, they would not only fly off the shelves, but they would also gain OSS efforts improving popular packages. Products like the NVIDIA A6000 are so insanely overpriced, I’m still baffled why larger VRAM cards haven’t come out more competitive.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  > I’m still baffled why larger VRAM cards haven’t come out more competitive. Because that would eat into the market of hyper expensive dedicated AI accelerator cards. Wasn't it obvious? At TSMC you'll pay 20 per square inch of silicon(number I made up for exemplification), would you rather a) print a GPU on it and sell it to consumers for $800 or b) print an AI accelerator on it and sell it to datacenters for $8000? It's really that simple. What company you know that says no to making more money?
LegitShady 2y ago
I don't think Intel can afford to not continue in the GPU segment. They must continue developing there. It's a growth industry with high demand and good margins, and cancelling their gpi stuff saves them a billion now and costs them the whole company in 10 years.

moffkalast 2y ago

Would be great to see something that rivals the Strix Halo and the Z1 at apologetic prices :) Right now everyone's still busy shoving the not-very-efficient N100 into every possible product that exists and making up some new ones too, while half of them end up underperforming from improper cooling.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]