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Same South Korea that suffers from one of the lowest fertility/birth rates in the world? No better way to motivate young people to start a family, than to forc

Same South Korea that suffers from one of the lowest fertility/birth rates in the world? No better way to motivate young people to start a family, than to force them to work even more. Yes, I know this said "managers" - but let's be real, if your manager works 6 days a week, so are probably you too, in a country with work culture like SK.

lumost 2y ago
Line managers have a variety of means to motivate employees, if they are told to work 6 days a week. They will mostly imply that their team should as well. Even in cases where its illegal for them to do so.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/07/602_377222.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/07/602_377222.html > The number of young Koreans who opted out of the job market in May was recorded at about 400,000, the highest since 2020. Despite the government's measures announced last year to integrate this group into the labor market, their number increased again after nine months as the number of full-time jobs decreased. > However, experts believe that such policies have their limitations if there aren't enough quality jobs for the 15-29 age group. > "The impact of high interest rates and reduced investment following the pandemic has led to a decrease in quality jobs desired by young people," Kim Gwang-suk, head of research at the Institute for Korean Economy & Industry, said. "This situation has resulted in a decline in regular employment and a loss of job-seeking motivation among young people." If you are older, you are likely trapped in your job and must do. If you are younger, you are likely not, and can opt out. Based on trajectories, what do we think will happen to more young folks who age into working age? Grind? Or opt out? Consider how this impacts total fertility rate, at a time when South Korea has set a record for lowest in the world. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-koreas-fertility-rate-dropped-fresh-record-low-2023-2024-02-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-koreas-fert... > South Korea's fertility rate, already the world's lowest, continued its dramatic decline in 2023, as women concerned about their career advancement and the financial cost of raising children decided to delay childbirth or to not have babies. > The average number of expected babies for a South Korean woman during her reproductive life fell to a record low of 0.72 from 0.78 in 2022, data from Statistics Korea showed on Wednesday.
- winternewt 2y ago
  This is how Japanese companies get their employees to work unpaid overtime. They give their line managers overtime pay, and everybody else is too ashamed to go home before their boss.
nine_zeros 2y ago
> Same South Korea that suffers from one of the lowest fertility/birth rates in the world? I feel like the endgame of our "line goes up for the wealthy" system is - people abandoning making other humans. The amount of pressure on 20s/30s people is immense. A 9-month pregnancy, maternity, and parenthood has become so risky from a job/earnings perspective for an individual. There is zero stability. Even hunter/gatherer societies created stability for their pregnant women and children.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- blackhawkC17 2y ago
  South Korea is an outlier even among wealthy countries. They have an extreme work culture (beginning from school in the early stages) that takes a toll on people . On one hand, we can say this work ethic/culture enabled them to go from third world to first in less than a century. But stretch it too much and the country suffers population collapse. I wonder if being bordered by a rabid enemy (North Korea) also plays a role in the low birth rates. Maybe people don’t want to give birth to kids that might end up fighting war in the long run.
- joenot443 2y ago
  Personally, I'd argue there's a _lot_ more stability for someone in the modern West than a hunter/gatherer living on the plains. I'm not really sure what stability you're talking about in hunter gatherer societies, my understanding is that they generally existed on the edge of subsistence and would be absolutely mind boggled by amount of excess we enjoy today.
  - nine_zeros 2y ago
    > Personally, I'd argue there's a _lot_ more stability for someone in the modern West than a hunter/gatherer living on the plains. I'm not really sure what stability you're talking about in hunter gatherer societies, my understanding is that they generally existed on the edge of subsistence and would be absolutely mind boggled by amount of excess we enjoy today. The hunter or the gatherer was not abandoned from the tribe/laid off/thrown on a PIP during a pregnancy for not finding enough fruits for the tribe CEO.

lumost 2y ago

Line managers have a variety of means to motivate employees, if they are told to work 6 days a week. They will mostly imply that their team should as well. Even in cases where its illegal for them to do so.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/07/602_377222.html https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/07/602_377222.html > The number of young Koreans who opted out of the job market in May was recorded at about 400,000, the highest since 2020. Despite the government's measures announced last year to integrate this group into the labor market, their number increased again after nine months as the number of full-time jobs decreased. > However, experts believe that such policies have their limitations if there aren't enough quality jobs for the 15-29 age group. > "The impact of high interest rates and reduced investment following the pandemic has led to a decrease in quality jobs desired by young people," Kim Gwang-suk, head of research at the Institute for Korean Economy & Industry, said. "This situation has resulted in a decline in regular employment and a loss of job-seeking motivation among young people." If you are older, you are likely trapped in your job and must do. If you are younger, you are likely not, and can opt out. Based on trajectories, what do we think will happen to more young folks who age into working age? Grind? Or opt out? Consider how this impacts total fertility rate, at a time when South Korea has set a record for lowest in the world. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-koreas-fertility-rate-dropped-fresh-record-low-2023-2024-02-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-koreas-fert... > South Korea's fertility rate, already the world's lowest, continued its dramatic decline in 2023, as women concerned about their career advancement and the financial cost of raising children decided to delay childbirth or to not have babies. > The average number of expected babies for a South Korean woman during her reproductive life fell to a record low of 0.72 from 0.78 in 2022, data from Statistics Korea showed on Wednesday.
winternewt 2y ago
This is how Japanese companies get their employees to work unpaid overtime. They give their line managers overtime pay, and everybody else is too ashamed to go home before their boss.

nine_zeros 2y ago

> Same South Korea that suffers from one of the lowest fertility/birth rates in the world? I feel like the endgame of our "line goes up for the wealthy" system is - people abandoning making other humans. The amount of pressure on 20s/30s people is immense. A 9-month pregnancy, maternity, and parenthood has become so risky from a job/earnings perspective for an individual. There is zero stability. Even hunter/gatherer societies created stability for their pregnant women and children.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
blackhawkC17 2y ago
South Korea is an outlier even among wealthy countries. They have an extreme work culture (beginning from school in the early stages) that takes a toll on people . On one hand, we can say this work ethic/culture enabled them to go from third world to first in less than a century. But stretch it too much and the country suffers population collapse. I wonder if being bordered by a rabid enemy (North Korea) also plays a role in the low birth rates. Maybe people don’t want to give birth to kids that might end up fighting war in the long run.
joenot443 2y ago
Personally, I'd argue there's a _lot_ more stability for someone in the modern West than a hunter/gatherer living on the plains. I'm not really sure what stability you're talking about in hunter gatherer societies, my understanding is that they generally existed on the edge of subsistence and would be absolutely mind boggled by amount of excess we enjoy today.
- nine_zeros 2y ago
  > Personally, I'd argue there's a _lot_ more stability for someone in the modern West than a hunter/gatherer living on the plains. I'm not really sure what stability you're talking about in hunter gatherer societies, my understanding is that they generally existed on the edge of subsistence and would be absolutely mind boggled by amount of excess we enjoy today. The hunter or the gatherer was not abandoned from the tribe/laid off/thrown on a PIP during a pregnancy for not finding enough fruits for the tribe CEO.