5 ms·

Official or not, I've never seen the government care even a little bit about a petition, beyond paying it lip service until the news cycle moves on to the next

by encom 2y ago

Official or not, I've never seen the government care even a little bit about a petition, beyond paying it lip service until the news cycle moves on to the next current thing.

jowea 2y ago
I don't know, I think the EU has already proven itself willing to regulate the tech industry. And I'm not sure if this proposal is something that the game industry would die on a hill to stop. So getting some relatively easy brownie points from a citizen initiative seems plausible. At a minimum it has the safe effect as any other hopeless change.org petition, media attention.
zachrip 2y ago
I'm sure folks here could list dozens of times they have helped, but also defeatism in general isn't a useful tool for solving problems.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  if your best rebuttal is "well just stay positive" in a year of negatives, I'm not going to be very optimistic in the end. It just feels like people denying the reality around them.
  - account42 2y ago
    It's more of a you are guaranteed to miss all the shots you don't take situation. Signing a petition isn't exactly a high cost so even if the chance to succeed is lot you might as well.
niemandhier 2y ago
Those ECI that manage to get the needed vote count do influence the EU politics. Since ECIs were launched in 2012, 110 initiatives were started, 10 reached the needed vote count. Of these 2 made actual impact: - Ban Glyphosate led to a reevaluation of the pesticide approval procedure - End The Cage Age made the commission reevaluate the factors for a transition int the agriculture sector. This particular initiative about games will probably face much less head wind, since: 1. It is about customer rights ( which the EU just loves ) 2. It will disproportionately impact American companies
- jowea 2y ago
  I wonder if CDPR will support this proposal if it gets somewhere.
  - Hamuko 2y ago
    I never played it, but apparently Gwent had a pretty graceful termination of support where they kinda handed the game to the "community" and allowed them to keep the game going. Don't know if they would support legislation to enshrine those kinds of practices into law, but at least CDPR seems to be more on this side of things.
  - perihelions 2y ago
    I'm sure the company that differentiates itself by marketing a DRM-free gaming platform would certainly voice support of similar concepts, but more importantly, why should we care? CDPR's politics is merely the politics of one person, their CEO. Is the EU a democracy of hundreds of millions of citizens, or is it an oligarchy of CEO's? It doesn't matter one bit what a corporate spokesman says about democratic legislation and IMHO it feels unwholesome to even bring it up.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      > but more importantly, why should we care? Because money talks, and CDPR has lots of Witcher/Cyberpunk money. Yes, we are in 2024 an oligarchy of ceo's facading like a (republic) democracy. Wholesomeness was never in the equation. If you have any benevolent dictators, you may as well use them.
- tremon 2y ago
  I don't know the outcome of the second one you mentioned, but Glyphosate use was extended last year for another 10 years [0]. So what is the "actual impact" you are referring to? [0] https://food.ec.europa.eu/plants/pesticides/approval-active-substances-safeners-and-synergists/renewal-approval/glyphosate_en https://food.ec.europa.eu/plants/pesticides/approval-active-...
sighinggoldfish 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens%27_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens%27_Initiativ... " The European Citizens' Initiative (ECI) is a European Union (EU) mechanism aimed at increasing direct democracy by enabling "EU citizens to participate directly in the development of EU policies",[1] introduced with the Treaty of Lisbon in 2007. This popular initiative enables one million citizens of the European Union,[2] with a minimum number of nationals from at least seven member states, to call directly on the European Commission to propose a legal act (notably a Directive or Regulation) in an area where the member states have conferred powers onto the EU level. This right to request the commission to initiate a legislative proposal puts citizens on the same footing as the European Parliament and the European Council "
- encom 2y ago
  I know what it is. The danish government set up a similar thing. It has had zero impact on anything. Hence my scepticism.
  - sighinggoldfish 2y ago
    I moved to Denmark so hello! :) I'm curious of your examples actually as I'd like to learn more about the Danish process specifically. As for ECIs, the wikipedia page does show successes. Of course I have my doubts this will even reach the necessary 1 million signatures (and honestly needs more cause many will be invalidated), but if it does reach 1 million, it does have a shot of doing something!
    - encom 2y ago
      Welcome to Denmark. Pardon the weather. The danish petition site is here: https://borgerforslag.dk/ https://borgerforslag.dk/ Of 1843 petitions, 52 have been presented in the Folketing, and some of those are silly/unrealistic, like removing tax on fuel. Others had very widespread support and a lot of news coverage, like banning genital mutilation of children, but nothing came of that. I think the enthusiasm for this initiative has declined greatly, since only one petition got enough votes (50.000) in 2024 to reach the Folketing. People have realised it's pointless.

by encom 2y ago

Official or not, I've never seen the government care even a little bit about a petition, beyond paying it lip service until the news cycle moves on to the next current thing.

jowea 2y ago

I don't know, I think the EU has already proven itself willing to regulate the tech industry. And I'm not sure if this proposal is something that the game industry would die on a hill to stop. So getting some relatively easy brownie points from a citizen initiative seems plausible. At a minimum it has the safe effect as any other hopeless change.org petition, media attention.

zachrip 2y ago

I'm sure folks here could list dozens of times they have helped, but also defeatism in general isn't a useful tool for solving problems.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
if your best rebuttal is "well just stay positive" in a year of negatives, I'm not going to be very optimistic in the end. It just feels like people denying the reality around them.
- account42 2y ago
  It's more of a you are guaranteed to miss all the shots you don't take situation. Signing a petition isn't exactly a high cost so even if the chance to succeed is lot you might as well.

niemandhier 2y ago

Those ECI that manage to get the needed vote count do influence the EU politics. Since ECIs were launched in 2012, 110 initiatives were started, 10 reached the needed vote count. Of these 2 made actual impact: - Ban Glyphosate led to a reevaluation of the pesticide approval procedure - End The Cage Age made the commission reevaluate the factors for a transition int the agriculture sector. This particular initiative about games will probably face much less head wind, since: 1. It is about customer rights ( which the EU just loves ) 2. It will disproportionately impact American companies

jowea 2y ago
I wonder if CDPR will support this proposal if it gets somewhere.
- Hamuko 2y ago
  I never played it, but apparently Gwent had a pretty graceful termination of support where they kinda handed the game to the "community" and allowed them to keep the game going. Don't know if they would support legislation to enshrine those kinds of practices into law, but at least CDPR seems to be more on this side of things.
- perihelions 2y ago
  I'm sure the company that differentiates itself by marketing a DRM-free gaming platform would certainly voice support of similar concepts, but more importantly, why should we care? CDPR's politics is merely the politics of one person, their CEO. Is the EU a democracy of hundreds of millions of citizens, or is it an oligarchy of CEO's? It doesn't matter one bit what a corporate spokesman says about democratic legislation and IMHO it feels unwholesome to even bring it up.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    > but more importantly, why should we care? Because money talks, and CDPR has lots of Witcher/Cyberpunk money. Yes, we are in 2024 an oligarchy of ceo's facading like a (republic) democracy. Wholesomeness was never in the equation. If you have any benevolent dictators, you may as well use them.
tremon 2y ago
I don't know the outcome of the second one you mentioned, but Glyphosate use was extended last year for another 10 years [0]. So what is the "actual impact" you are referring to? [0] https://food.ec.europa.eu/plants/pesticides/approval-active-substances-safeners-and-synergists/renewal-approval/glyphosate_en https://food.ec.europa.eu/plants/pesticides/approval-active-...

sighinggoldfish 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens%27_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Citizens%27_Initiativ... " The European Citizens' Initiative (ECI) is a European Union (EU) mechanism aimed at increasing direct democracy by enabling "EU citizens to participate directly in the development of EU policies",[1] introduced with the Treaty of Lisbon in 2007. This popular initiative enables one million citizens of the European Union,[2] with a minimum number of nationals from at least seven member states, to call directly on the European Commission to propose a legal act (notably a Directive or Regulation) in an area where the member states have conferred powers onto the EU level. This right to request the commission to initiate a legislative proposal puts citizens on the same footing as the European Parliament and the European Council "

encom 2y ago
I know what it is. The danish government set up a similar thing. It has had zero impact on anything. Hence my scepticism.
- sighinggoldfish 2y ago
  I moved to Denmark so hello! :) I'm curious of your examples actually as I'd like to learn more about the Danish process specifically. As for ECIs, the wikipedia page does show successes. Of course I have my doubts this will even reach the necessary 1 million signatures (and honestly needs more cause many will be invalidated), but if it does reach 1 million, it does have a shot of doing something!
  - encom 2y ago
    Welcome to Denmark. Pardon the weather. The danish petition site is here: https://borgerforslag.dk/ https://borgerforslag.dk/ Of 1843 petitions, 52 have been presented in the Folketing, and some of those are silly/unrealistic, like removing tax on fuel. Others had very widespread support and a lot of news coverage, like banning genital mutilation of children, but nothing came of that. I think the enthusiasm for this initiative has declined greatly, since only one petition got enough votes (50.000) in 2024 to reach the Folketing. People have realised it's pointless.